***Guest Appearance
Credits to:
https://www.youtube.com/@drsusiecarder
“From Bank Puppet to Private Money Powerhouse: Jay Conner on Raising Millions Without Asking”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clTxDN_uI4I&t=127s
Have you ever dreamed of building a seven-figure real estate empire—without ever begging a bank? For many entrepreneurs, financial constraints and fear of rejection keep them from scaling their wealth strategies, especially when it comes to real estate. In a recent episode of the Raising Private Money podcast, Dr. Susie Carder sat down with Jay Conner—the “Private Money Authority”—to break down exactly how you can crack the code on creative finance and raise the capital you need, even if you’re just starting.
Flip the Script on Funding
Jay’s journey didn’t start glamorously. Back in 2003, he did things the hard way: big down payments, painful fees, and personal guarantees. Like many, he depended entirely on the bank—until the 2008 crash changed everything.
Instead of quitting, Jay asked himself one key question: “Who do you know that can help fix your problem?” That single question laid the groundwork for his pivot into the world of private money—a move that ultimately helped him raise over $2.1 million in just a few months.
The Private Money Mindset
So what exactly is private money? There’s a lot of confusion around the term—many associate it with hard money loans, but as Jay clarifies, private money comes from individuals, not institutions. “A private money lender is a human being, just like you and me, who loans money to real estate investors either from their investment capital or retirement funds,” Jay explained. In contrast, hard money lenders are brokers who pool private dollars into a fund and then loan it back out at much higher rates and fees.
The real breakthrough? Stop asking for loans and start offering opportunities. The first step, Jay says, is to “own the real estate between your ears”—adopt the right mindset. You become a teacher, not a beggar. Lead with value, educate your network, and never make a desperate plea for funds. “Desperation has a smell to it,” Jay warned.
The Teaching Approach to Attracting Money
Jay’s approach is refreshingly simple: teach, don’t pitch.
- Build Your Program: Have a clear process and attractive returns for your lenders.
- Teach First: Focus on educating people about how they can earn high yields safely by lending in real estate—without ever tying the lesson to a specific deal in the beginning.
- Separate Education from Deals: Don’t lead a conversation with a funding request; first, get them excited and informed.
- Make the Good News Call: Once someone’s ready and has funds available, only then present a deal that fits the program they already understand and want.
One of Jay’s first private money conversations happened at Bible study. Rather than asking for cash, he asked a well-connected friend to refer anyone frustrated with low bank returns. Within minutes, that friend wanted to invest himself—and doubled his commitment by the next day, simply because he understood the opportunity.
Automate and Scale
The true power in Jay’s system isn’t just in raising money—it’s in setting up a business that doesn’t own your life. By focusing on the activities he loves (teaching, decision-making, and marketing experimentation) and outsourcing the rest, Jay runs a multimillion-dollar business in under 10 hours a week. The right CRM, virtual assistants, and team members make it possible.
Your Legacy and Impact
Jay’s play isn’t just about money; it’s about lasting impact. As he reflects, “Enough is never enough when it’s not about you.” Whether supporting charities or teaching others, he embodies a servant heart—helping others achieve both financial returns and life freedom.
Ready to Raise Private Money?
If Jay can do it, so can you. Start with mindset, step into your teacher hat, structure your offers, and focus on relationships over transactions. Want more? Grab Jay’s book “Where to Get the Money Now” at jayconner.com/book and check out his podcast, Raising Private Money.
Stop waiting for a bank’s approval—your empire is waiting for you to teach, steward, and succeed.
10 Discussion Questions from this Episode
- What mindset shift did the guest recommend as the foundational first step for raising private money, and why is this shift so critical to success?
- How did the 2008 financial crisis serve as a turning point in the guest’s real estate investing career, and what lessons can entrepreneurs learn from that experience?
- In what ways does “private money” differ from “hard money,” and what are the advantages and disadvantages of each approach?
- Why does the guest insist on never asking directly for money when raising private capital, and what techniques does he use instead to attract investors?
- According to the episode, what are some key components to include in your private money program when educating potential lenders?
- How does separating the education conversation from the funding request help avoid the appearance of desperation and lead to stronger results?
- What are the critical numbers and formulas used to determine a good real estate deal when using private money, and how do those calculations change depending on the price range?
- Can you explain—using your own words—the concept of buying a property “subject to” the existing note, and in what situations is this strategy most beneficial?
- What was the guest’s process for automating his business so that he could work less than 10 hours a week, and what lessons can attendees apply to their own ventures?
- In the episode’s closing, the guest spoke about his legacy and motivation for continued work. How does having a larger purpose beyond personal wealth impact business decisions and fulfillment?
Fun facts that were revealed in the episode:
- “No Begging Banks” Philosophy: The main guest built a seven-figure real estate empire after 2008 without ever relying on traditional bank financing again. He famously told his bank, “Bless your heart,” and engineered a system to raise millions in private money—without asking for it directly!
- The Bible Study Lender: One of the guest’s first private money lenders was recruited at a Wednesday night Bible study. By simply asking this well-connected friend for referrals—rather than asking for money—he sparked enough interest to land a half-million-dollar commitment after sharing his investment program over coffee.
- Automated Empire, Minimal Hours: Despite handling a business that cycles millions, the episode’s real estate investor reveals that he now works less than 10 hours (truthfully, often less than 5 hours) a week in his business, thanks to automation, virtual assistants, and a rock-solid team structure.
Timestamps:
00:00 Jay Conner’s private money breakthrough
06:29 Regret of not having a mentor
09:59 Line of credit closure news
13:04 Learning about private money lending
15:40 Understanding private money basics
17:28 Understanding private money lending
22:17 Pitching real estate investment referrals
25:28 Setting up a self-directed IRA
29:42 Balancing work and personal life
30:24 Balancing business success and happiness
35:21 Calculating property renovation costs
38:14 Creative financing strategies
41:27 Creative real estate cash flow strategies
45:28 Raising capital without banks
48:50 Like, share, and business assessment
49:55 Episode outro and subscription reminder
Connect With Jay Conner:
Private Money Academy Conference:
Free Report:
https://www.jayconner.com/MoneyReport
Join the Private Money Academy:
https://www.JayConner.com/trial/
Have you read Jay’s new book, Where to Get the Money Now?
It is available FREE (all you pay is the shipping and handling) at https://www.JayConner.com/Book
What is Private Money? Real Estate Investing with Jay Conner
http://www.JayConner.com/MoneyPodcast
Jay Conner is a proven real estate investment leader. Without using his own money or credit, Jay maximizes creative methods to buy and sell properties with profits averaging $67,000 per deal.
#RealEstate #RealEstateInvesting #RealEstateInvestingForBeginners #Foreclosures #FlippingHouses #PrivateMoney #RaisingPrivateMoney #JayConner
YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/RealEstateInvestingWithJayConner
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https://www.pinterest.com/JConner_PrivateMoneyAuthority
Creative Financing and Private Money: Jay Conner’s Secrets to Real Estate Success
Jay Conner [00:00:00]:
You’re going to be a teacher. You’re not going to ask anybody for anything. You’re just going to teach. You’re going to lead with a servant’s heart and educate people.
Narrator [00:00:08]:
And if you’re a real estate investor and are wondering how to raise and leverage private money to make more profit on every deal, then you’re in the right place to raise private money. We’ll speak with new and seasoned investors to dissect their deals and extract the best tips and strategies to help you get the money. Because the money comes first. Now, here’s your host, Jay Conner.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:00:37]:
Hold on to your seats, Power Your Profit Nation, because today’s guest is all about flipping your script on funding forever. My guest is a southern gentleman who told the bank, Bless your heart, then built a seven-figure empire without them. Back in 2003, Jay Conner was doing real estate the hard way. Big down payments, painful fees, personal guarantees, basically being the bank’s puppet. But when the 2008 crash happened, we all remember that, well, the rug was pulled out from under him, and Jay said, Never again. What did he do? He discovered the sexy world of private money, raised over 2.1 million in just a few months, and created rinse-and-repeat systems that help him rake in seven figures year after year while working less than 10 hours a week. Yes, you heard that right. If you ever wanted to crack the code on creative financing, raise capital without begging banks, or build a real estate empire that runs without owning your soul, this episode is the golden ticket.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:01:39]:
Get ready to meet the man who went from being owned by the bank to owning the game, Jay Conner, the private Money authority. Sit back, hold on to your seats, and let’s dive in.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:01:50]:
Welcome to Power Your Profits Podcast, your friendly guide in bringing your business revenue to the next level. Listen. As host, Dr. Susie Carter hears inspiring stories of success from her fellow entrepreneurs and transformational leaders, prepare to make significant changes to their strategies as they unravel the secrets of building multi-million-dollar businesses and the most effective tips on finance, marketing, and sales accountability. If you want to take your first steps towards explosive business growth, this podcast is for you. Without further ado, here is your host, Dr. Susie.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:02:27]:
The man, the myth, the legend, Jake.
Jay Conner [00:02:32]:
Hello, Dr. Susie Carter. How are you today?
Dr. Susie Carder [00:02:35]:
I’m good. How are you today?
Jay Conner [00:02:37]:
I’m great. I love your glasses.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:02:40]:
Thank you.
Jay Conner [00:02:42]:
Wow.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:02:43]:
Fun with it. If I gotta wear them, they gotta be fun. I cannot be in denial anymore, my friend. I’ve. I tried it long enough, and I can only make the font so big before you look crazy.
Jay Conner [00:02:55]:
That’s right. Well, I’m where I have to wear. These are. I have to wear anything that’s like my hand extended backwards. I put it on the floor, and I can read it.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:03:08]:
But.
Jay Conner [00:03:09]:
But up close. So anyway, yes, mine, my glasses are not nearly as much fun as yours.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:03:14]:
Well, when I go to dinner, my husband has to borrow mine, so he looks like Elton John. When we’re out to dinner, he never knows what’s going to come out of my purse. He’s like, okay, I love it.
Jay Conner [00:03:26]:
I love it. Well, thank you for inviting me to join the party.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:03:29]:
You’re welcome. So our client base is a plethora of entrepreneurs. Right. So we’ve got basically three buckets. People are just starting the entrepreneurship journey. That mid-range between half a million and a million. And then we have a million-plus entrepreneurs. So we’ve got all kinds of people.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:03:47]:
Lots of real estate investors, lots of entrepreneurs looking for another hustle. Lots of. Right. What can we do? So this as well, it’s one of my passions, real estate development. So we’ve got several properties ourselves. It’s always been one of my wealth strategies. So I love, love, love your message, love what you do, love your concept, and am excited to chat with you.
Jay Conner [00:04:06]:
Wonderful. Me too.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:04:07]:
Okay, good. So I already did your intro before we started, so I’m just going to pick up from there, if that’s okay. And it’s casual conversation. Um, whatever comes out of your mouth comes out of your mouth. It’s all okay.
Jay Conner [00:04:22]:
I appreciate it. I’m struggling with terrible hip pain, so I’m trying to get comfortable.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:04:27]:
Oh, no.
Jay Conner [00:04:28]:
So I don’t look weird. Are you video and audio?
Dr. Susie Carder [00:04:31]:
Yes, we’re video and audio.
Jay Conner [00:04:34]:
So I’ll try to get situated here.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:04:36]:
Yeah.
Jay Conner [00:04:37]:
Where I don’t look weird.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:04:38]:
Is it time to get a new one?
Jay Conner [00:04:40]:
I hope not.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:04:42]:
Time to cash that one in.
Jay Conner [00:04:43]:
Yeah, I don’t. I don’t think it’s bone. I think it’s. I think it’s either lower back or something. I got. I got two MRIs scheduled for the end of this week.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:04:52]:
Oh, good. But anyway, it’s the pains of getting more mature as well.
Jay Conner [00:04:58]:
Tell me. Tell me about it.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:05:00]:
Sitting on our booties all day.
Jay Conner [00:05:02]:
Exactly. Exactly. Alrighty. Well, I am sitting on. Ready.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:05:08]:
Okay. So let me. I’m gonna start. So, Jay, thank you so much. I am so excited about this conversation because I think when we get into money constraints, people get scared. They don’t like to talk about money. And I always say wealth is your birthright, because I believe there’s money all around us, and I love that we’re going to talk about how to find it, how to leverage it, how to monetize it, and be creative around it, which is juicy, juicy, juicy.
Jay Conner [00:05:35]:
So, Dr. Susie Carter, I am so excited to be here and so happy you invited me to come along and talk about mt favorite subject. I’m so passionate about being private money and how to never rely on institutional money for your real estate deals. And the reason I’m so excited is that this strategy of using money like this has had more of an impact on our real estate investing business than anything else that I’ve employed ever since we started way back in 2003.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:06:10]:
Yes. So let’s rewind the clock. What’s the most ridiculous thing you did in the early real estate days that makes you cringe now or laugh or cry or all the above?
Jay Conner [00:06:21]:
Well, yes. Well, pain is normally more memorable.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:06:27]:
Amen, brother. Amen.
Jay Conner [00:06:29]:
Yes. And so when you said the word makes me cringe, it reminds me of when I’d only been in the business. Well, one thing that makes me cringe is that I didn’t get a mentor or coach for my first six years. And so that was a big mistake, but one thing. So, as an example, one thing in particular, I know this was before the private money days. I didn’t know anything about private money. When this happened, I was using institutional money, banks, mortgage lenders, et cetera. And I invested in this beachfront condominium.
Jay Conner [00:07:03]:
We live here in Atlantic Beach, Morehead City, North Carolina. So we’re right here on the coast. And so I invested it. It was a foreclosure. I bought it at the courthouse steps. And long story short, my intention, my intention, I planned to flip it. But things did not go as planned. Of course, things seldom go as planned anyway, so I was not prepared for the unplanned.
Jay Conner [00:07:30]:
And so by the time we renovated it and got ready to put it on the market, the market had turned, and prices had started coming down. And so I was stubborn, and I held on to my price, and I kept it in the multiple listing service until the bleeding got too painful with the carrying costs, to the point where I just had to put it on the rental market. Well, here’s where the big mistake was. I had not calculated what the cash flow would be on this property if we’re stuck. Holding wabloodbathbath.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:08:03]:
Yeah.
Jay Conner [00:08:03]:
A very long time. So here’s the lesson. Here’s the lesson learned. Of course, my good friend David Meltzer, he says he doesn’t believe in failures. He just believes in lessons.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:08:14]:
Yes.
Jay Conner [00:08:15]:
So the lesson learned was that when you invest in real estate, particularly a single-family house or a dwelling, even if you’re planning on flipping it and making that big profit right out, you know, right out the gate, you better run your numbers like I didn’t. You’d better run your numbers and calculate what that property’s cash flow will be if you end up holding the property. So, regardless of your intended strategy, you gotta have a plan B and a plan C. Amen.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:08:46]:
Especially with real estate. I mean, in business in general, but real estate, ooh, I lost my hiney. Like you lost your hiney many a time, but I’ve also made millions many a time. So it is a great strategy. And I agree with you, Jay. Finding the right mentor. And, you know, we don’t coach on that in our business. You have the right to go.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:09:03]:
We just do it as a way to build our wealth, you know, in. In our family. So you were owned by the bank until 2008. What did it really feel like to get cut off? Because,t o be honest, right. Are there any curse words incursive that day?
Jay Conner [00:09:20]:
My word. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was actually in January of 2009 when everything changed for me and my wife, Carol Joy, in our business. You see, we started investing in single-family houses in 2003. And from 2003 until 2009, in January of 2009, all I knew to do was go to the local bank, get on my hands and knees when I needed a deal funded, and say, Please fund my deal. And the banker would make me pull up my skirt and look at my personal assets and pull my credit score, financial statements, and all that. Well, that worked out okay. Okay.
Jay Conner [00:09:59]:
Not great, but okay for the first six years. And then in January of 2009, I was sitting right here at this desk. I had two houses under contract to purchase. And I called up my banker, whose name was Steve, and he was with BB&T at the time. It’s no longer BB&T Truist now, but anyway, so I called him up, and Steve and I had done a bunch of deals for six years, always made my payments on time, etc. So anyway, I called up Steve. I told him about the two deals, and then he said, Well, Jay, I’m sorry to tell you, but the bank has closed your line of credit. I said, what? He said, Yeah, we’ve closed your line of credit.
Jay Conner [00:10:41]:
I said, sSteve wait a minute. I got an 800 credit score. I’ve never been late on payments. I’ve done a ton of deals with you for six years. Why are you telling me you’ve closed my line of credit? He said, Jay, don’t you know there’s a global financial crisis going on right now? I said, No, but you just gave me a global financial crisis.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:11:01]:
Exactly.
Jay Conner [00:11:03]:
And so I said, I don’t have a way to fund these two deals. So I hung up the phone. So I want to share with you. Might call you, Dr. Susie. I just want to call you. Yes, Dr. Susie.
Jay Conner [00:11:13]:
I love it. So one of my mentors is Dr. Gina. Anyway, so Dr. Susie, I hung up the phone. I want to share with you and your audience a very powerful question that I asked myself when that happened. And by the way, if you’re an entrepreneur or you’re getting ready to be an entrepreneur, that is going to happen to you many times in your career. The unexpected.
Jay Conner [00:11:38]:
So I sat here, and I asked myself this question. And I want to ask you this question. I don’t care where you are in your entrepreneurial journey; this question will help fix any problem you’ve got. And by the way, these people are running around saying, Every problem’s an opportunity. I want to throw up. I want to be like the red Kool-Aid guy running into a brick wall. I didn’t have an opportunity, for goodness ‘ sake. I had a problem.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:12:03]:
Yes.
Jay Conner [00:12:03]:
How did the problem become an opportunity? Absolutely. But at the moment in time, it’s a ridiculous problem. So here’s the question I asked myself. I said, Jayy, who do you know that can help fix your problem? Very simple question. Yeah, that question. I don’t care if you’ve got a health challenge, career, financial relationship, or whatever the problem is. That’s a great question to ask yourself. Who do I know who can help me with my problem? When I ask myself that question, it’s like the fireworks went off in my brain because the power is in asking the right questions.
Jay Conner [00:12:41]:
And I immediately thought of a dear friend of mine in Carol Joy’s. His name is Jeff Blankenship. He was living in Greensboro, North Carolina, at the time, investing in single-family houses. We have known each other through acapella gospel singing events and stuff. In fact, still do. Anyway, I called up Jeff. I told him the story. Here’s exactly what Jeff said to me.
Jay Conner [00:13:04]:
He says, ” Well, Jay, welcome to the club. I said, What club are you talking about? He said the club has the bank close your line of credit. My bank closed my line of credit last week. I think I’m talking to the Wrong dude. Well, Jeff, how are you going to fund your deals? He said, ” Well, have you ever heard of private money? I said no. He said, ” Well, have you ever heard of self-directed IRAs, how individuals can use their retirement funds to loan to us real estate investors and earn the interest either tax-deferred or tax-free? I said, Jeff, you are talking over my head. I don’t know if I have a clue what you’re talking about. I said, ” Well, how do I learn about it? He said, ” Well, there’s this gentleman down in Jacksonville, Florida, by the name of Ron Legra, and that can teach us about private money.
Jay Conner [00:13:59]:
I said, ” Well, what is private money? He said, Jayy, I don’t know. But Ron says we can get a lot of it for our real estate deals.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:14:07]:
Let’s go.
Jay Conner [00:14:09]:
Okay, so we went. I went to my very first Ron Rhonda grand and Real Estate Investing seminar to learn about private money. And Ron changed my life. Ron changed my life. I learned about private money, and I learned, and this was my own twist on it. I learned how to raise millions and millions of dollars. And by the way, if you’re just starting, you don’t need millions and millions of dollars. But I learned how to raise millions and millions of dollars without ever asking for money and without ever pitching a deal to a lender.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:14:46]:
Okay, that just sounds too good to be true.
Jay Conner [00:14:48]:
Sounds too good to be true. And in fact, I’m doing a Zoom training this coming Thursday night on exactly how to do that, how to raise private money without ever asking for money. And so within less than 90 days, I was able to attract a little over $2 million in new funding that I didn’t have. And since that time, Dr. Susie, I have never had to borrow institutional money or go to a bank or provide an appraisal or show financial statements or have my credit score pulled. None of that. And I’ll give you a chance. I’m going to come up for air and give you a chance.
Jay Conner [00:15:26]:
Back to you for a moment, Dr. Susie. But I’ll be glad to share exactly what I did and what I still do today to raise all this money without ever asking.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:15:40]:
Let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about it. Because most people, when they hear private money, and we’ve all heard the saying, ” OPM, ” go use other people’s money. And you’re like, I would love to use other people’s money. How do I use other people’s money? Right? And very similar to you, right? We would go to banks, and we were heavily overleveraged in 2008 when everybody else was. And so we lost our ass. We lost about 10 million in assets, right, because everything just flipped on its side, and then from there we just went, If I can’t pay cash, I’m not buying it. So let’s talk about private money without getting intimidated.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:16:15]:
And yes, we are all ears, my friend.
Jay Conner [00:16:18]:
Here we go. So first of all, let me talk about what private money is not. So a lot of times, particularly in today’s market, when someone hears private money, they associate it with hard money. They think private money and hard money are synonymous. And the reason for that is you’ve got a lot of hard money lenders out there today calling themselves private money lenders. So, a hard money lender is typically a broker. It’s still institutional money. But a hard money lender is typically a broker that has gone out and raised private money for their fund for those individuals to get a nice rate of return.
Jay Conner [00:16:58]:
And then the pri and then the hard money lender turns around and loans it out to us real estate investors, charges points, origination fees, et cetera, and jacks up the interest rate. So, you know, with hard money today, you’re going to be looking at 12 to 14%. Right. And origination fees, I’m not talking about. That’s not this world, by the way. I’m not poo-pooing hard money. Some of my best friends are hard money lenders. They just happen to use my techniques to go raise private money for their fund to turn around and loan out to real estate investors.
Jay Conner [00:17:28]:
It’s all the same money. So that’s what it’s not. So, to be clear, a private money lender is an individual, a human being, just like you and me, who loans money to us real estate investors either from their investment capital and/or their retirement funds, as I alluded to earlier. So how in the world did I go about getting all this money and still do to this day? Well, people ask me all the time, Dr. Susie, what’s the first thing you’ve got to do, Jay, to raise private money without asking for it? I can tell you the first thing to do. Owning the real estate between your ears is the first thing to do. Now, let me be specific about what I mean by that. You see, the traditional way to borrow money is that you go to the lender, and they make the rules.
Jay Conner [00:18:17]:
That’s the traditional way. The lender sets the interest rate, and they set the fees. It’s because of the old mindset that says he who has the cash rules. That’s not the case in this world. So what we want to do is shift our thinking 180 degrees. Instead of asking for a mortgage or applying for a mortgage, you’re offering a mortgage. You’re offering an opportunity. You see, I’ve got 47 private lenders right now funding our deals.
Jay Conner [00:18:51]:
Now you don’t need 47 private lenders; you just need one or two to get started. I’ve got 47 private lenders funding our deals. And here’s what’s interesting, Dr. Susie. Not one of my private lenders ever heard about private money, private lending, or self-directed IRAs until I did this. I put on my teacher hat, and my teacher hat says private money, teacher. So I take on the Persona. Well, it’s really not a Persona.
Jay Conner [00:19:22]:
I love teaching, and I love sharing. I love telling people about ways that they can earn high rates of return safely and securely in ways they never thought about. So I just went about, first of all, having the right mindset. I’m going to teach people who have never heard about this world of opportunity what private money is and how they can get high rates of return safely and securely. So how did I go about doing that? Well, first of all, I had to put my program together. That’s step number two. Step number one, right mindset. You’re going to be a teacher.
Jay Conner [00:19:54]:
You’re not going to ask anybody for anything. You’re just going to teach. You’re going to lead with a servant’s heart and educate people. And here’s a very, very important part of the formula. Without ever bringing up a deal for them to fund while you’re teaching. You see, that’s a big mistake that real estate investors make. They’ll get private money. And in the same conversation, they got a deal over here.
Jay Conner [00:20:22]:
Here’s a writer that they need funded. Here’s a writer downer. Desperation has a smell to it.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:20:28]:
Yes. It doesn’t smell good on anybody.
Jay Conner [00:20:30]:
No, desperation stinks. And if you’re, if you’re sharing your program, your opportunity with people, and you’re teaching them, and you’re talking about a deal you need funded at the same time, you’re already sounding desperate. So here’s the secret sauce. Secret sauce. Separate the conversations of teaching, the opportunity, and the program that you offer, and have a deal for them to fund. So how did I go about teaching? Well, all kinds of methods. I like to simultaneously attract private money while I’m just going about my regular daily life. Anyway, so, you know, I’m one of my first private lenders, in fact, my first private lender.
Jay Conner [00:21:16]:
His name is Wayne. It was on Wednesday night at Bible study. 7:30 at night at Bible study here in Morehead City. I went to the foyer. We walked in, my wife Carol, Joy, and I, and I was looking for Wayne. He and I had known each other for a while. I walked up to Wayne, and I said, wayne, I’ve got something I want to talk to you about confidentially after Bible study, if you’re gonna have a few minutes. He said, ” Sure. “
Jay Conner [00:21:41]:
So we got together after Bible study, walked down to the nursery, and closed the door. Here’s exactly what I said to Wayne. So this is one of the techniques of attracting private money without asking for money. So we shut the door, and here’s exactly what I said to Wayne. I said, Wayne, you know everybody in this town. And he did. He’s passed away now, but he was in addition to the church; he was plugged into the Rotary Club. He was the Zenith Television dealer of Morehead City, North Carolina.
Jay Conner [00:22:17]:
And if you don’t know who the Zenith Television dealer was, that means you’re too young to remember life before Walmart came to town. He put a TV in everybody’s house. Anyway, I said, Wayne, you know everybody. And I said, Wayne, I need your help. I said, you see, I’ve now opened up my real estate investing business by referral only, and I’m now paying insane high rates of return to people who invest with me. When you run across somebody complaining about the volatility of the stock market and not earning hardly any money in the local bank, would you refer them to me, nd I’ll tell them about my program that I have? He said, ” Well, now, brother Jay, what you got going on there? And I said, What do you mean? He said, Well, what kind of rate are you paying? I said, Are you saying you might be interested? He said, Well, I might be interested. I said, why? He said, because we’re hardly earning any money from the local CDs and we’re losing our butt in the stock market. He said, What kind of rate are you paying? I said, well, Wayne, that sort of depends on the deal.
Jay Conner [00:23:19]:
But what sounds high to you? He said, ” Well, we only earned him 3%, and that’s what it was in 2009 in the local bank. He said, I don’t know, maybe 5 or 6%. I said, Wayne, I can’t pay you 5 or 6%, but I can pay you 8%. He said, Put me down for $250,000. So I went to his and his wife’s home the following Afternoon. And I told my teacher that I taught him the entire program I’d put together, bringing no deals to the conversation. I just talked about the interest rate, how they can get their money back in case of an emergency, the maximum loan to after-repair value, etc. After two cups of coffee, that $250,000 became $500,000 again, still no deal attached to it.
Jay Conner [00:24:05]:
So that’s, I mean, I was already in a Bible study, right? And look, let’s unpack what happened. I didn’t ask Wayne for any money. I didn’t pitch a deal. I asked for his help to spread the word. And boy, did he ever spread the word. And so, how else did I go about raising the money? Well, I put on a private lender luncheon, invited about 20 people that I have connections with, and my CP,d my realtor, my credibility team, you know. And at that one luncheon, I raised $969,000 in pledges with no deals attached. So let me finish this part, Dr.
Jay Conner [00:24:43]:
Susie. I’ll turn it back to you. So let me, let me unpack this. Teach, teach, teach, teach. The program, by the way, I say, just duplicates mine. It seems to work pretty well.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:24:57]:
I think so.
Jay Conner [00:24:58]:
That’s right. Now, Dr. Susie, let’s play a little game. Let’s pretend. So here I’m going to share the exact script right now. I’m going to share the exact script of exactly what, what to say to one of your new private lenders. So you’ve already taught them. They love the program, a nd they’re waiting for what I call the good news phone call. Because let’s play this game, Dr.
Jay Conner [00:25:28]:
Susan. Let’s pretend that you and I have known each other, you know, in whatever way, and I’ve taught you the program. You love the program. And let’s hypothetically pretend that you had $150,000 in a previous 401k at an employer that you used to be with, and it’s still there, and you’re not happy with it and whatever. And so I’ve introduced you to a self-directed IRA company that I recommend. And let’s assume you have moved that $150,000 from your old 401 (k) over to the self-directed IRA company, and you’re waiting for the good news phone call that normally takes about two weeks for someone to move their funds over to a self-directed IRA company, and it’s called getting your account funded. So you’ve been sitting by the phone waiting, and I pick up the phone, and I call you. Here’s the script.
Jay Conner [00:26:21]:
Here is the script for the good news phone call. I dial up Dr. Susie, answer the phone, and I say, Dr. Susie, I have got great news for you. I can now put your money to work. I’ve got a house under contract to purchase in Newport with an after-repair value of $200,000. Now the funding required for the deal is 150,000, which matches up to what you have available in your self-directed IRA. Closing is going to be and is scheduled for next Tuesday.
Jay Conner [00:26:54]:
So you’ll need to have your funds wired to my real estate attorney’s trust account by next Monday. I’m going to have my real estate attorney email you the wiring instructions. That’s the end of the script. That’s the end of the conversation. The stupidest thing I could have asked Dr. Susie is do you want to fund the deal? Of course, she wants to fund the deal. And here’s why. Dr.
Jay Conner [00:27:18]:
Susie wants to fund this deal. Number one, she has trusted me. And number one, she loved the program. She already knows what the deal is. She’s trusted me to introduce her to the self-directed IRA company that I recommend. She’s moved her funds over, and she’s not making any money until I put her money to work. And secondly, she knows I’m not going to bring a deal for her to fund unless it matches the criteria of the program that I already taught her. So she’s been waiting by the phone for the good news phone call.
Jay Conner [00:27:58]:
It’s all about managing expectations, teaching first, and then calling with the good news phone call. And everybody is ecstatically happy.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:28:09]:
Yes. So you’ve automated this process, right? You say you work less than 10 hours a week, so spill the tea. What does your lazy genius schedule actually look like?
Jay Conner [00:28:20]:
You know what’s funny about that, Dr. Susie? I didn’t even know what spill the tea meant until one of my nieces explained it to me last year. For goodness sake. So I do know how. I know what spilling the tea means. And I know how to spill the tea.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:28:35]:
So you are listening to another episode of Power, your profits podcast. We’ll be right back after a quick word from our sponsors. Overwhelmed by the complexity of business profit strategies, jump aboard the bullet train to the Big Profits course, a Streamlined solution by Dr. Susie Carter. This course is designed to uncomplicate the path to profitability. Imagine being able to identify and execute profit strategies with ease, skyrocketing your revenues. Visit course.poweryourprofits.com and sign up for the bullet train to Big Profits course today. Are you tired of struggling to take your business to the next level? Power Your Profits is the game-changing book you’ve been waiting for.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:29:19]:
Dr. Susie Carter, creator of the Predictable Success Method, reveals her proven strategies for explosive growth. From daily operations to marketing systems, this comprehensive guide empowers you to achieve predictable revenue and profit growth. Don’t miss out on this invaluable wisdom. Transform your business today. Find your copy@books.poweryourprofits.com, you know, I get,
Jay Conner [00:29:42]:
I get a different kind of question a lot of times, too. Dr. Susi,e which is the same question. Well, Jay, if you’ve automated this process and you’re working in the business less than 10 hours a week, actually, truth be told, less than five hours, what do you do? What do you do? Right. I can tell you what I do. I remember after being in this business for seven years. So one year after the private money started, I came into mine and Carol Joy’s kitchen at night. Coming down the hallway, I turned into the kitchen. It was about 10 p.m., and there sat my Carol Joy at the kitchen table with stacks of bills up to here and tears coming down her face.
Jay Conner [00:30:24]:
And I said, Babee, what in the world is wrong? What’s the problem? And she said, I can’t take it anymore. I can’t handle this anymore. And I made a promise right there and then, Dr. Susie, that I was going to set out to dictate, delegate, and disappear in this business as much as I could and never find my Carol Joy stressed out paying the bills at 10 p.m. And there’s a big lesson from that. And that is, you know, you can be making millions. And we were, and we still do today, thank God. But if you’re not enjoying the journey, I mean, after all, why do we want to become an entrepreneur? Why do we want to be a real estate investor or be in business for ourselves for any reason? Because, first of all, we don’t want to replace a job with another job that we just, you know, I mean, we want the wealth, we want the freedom.
Jay Conner [00:31:17]:
But bigger than that, what does the wealth allow us to do in serving other people? So anyway, I set out to automate the business, and I did. I started working with virtual assistants, which is a big part of our business. We only have full-time employees on W2. My personal assistant, our office manager, and my full-time acquisitionist, who works out of her home. She negotiates with all the sellers and et cetera. So what do I do? Well, I say just do what you enjoy and outsource the rest. So what do I enjoy doing? Well, I love. I enjoy testing different marketing methods for finding off-market motivated sellers of properties.
Jay Conner [00:32:02]:
So I’m all the time testing new methods. In fact, I had a Zoom meeting this morning for about 45 minutes with a new vendor on a new direct mail program that I want to try. So I love testing new marketing methods. We don’t buy anything in the multiple listing service because there are no deals in the multiple listing service. I haven’t bought anything in the multiple listing service since before COVID, so everything we buy is off-market. So, testing marketing methods. And the reason I’m able to automate the business so much is that our CRM, I mean, I was a mess. Dr.
Jay Conner [00:32:34]:
Susie, for years, I ran this business off of Post-it notes and a yellow pad. It was horrible. The most disorganized mess you’ve ever seen in your life.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:32:43]:
That’s why Carol Joy is crying at the table.
Jay Conner [00:32:46]:
Exactly. Exactly. And so a big part of our automated Autumn Automation is the CRM software that keeps up with all of our deals and pipelines. And Kim, my acquisitionist, has been with me for 19 years, and we never talk. We never talk. All the notes are in the CRM. She’s doing all the talking with the sellers. And so I decide what offer I want to make.
Jay Conner [00:33:13]:
I decide which houses I want the team to go look at. Dr. Susie, I ain’t looked in a house since my last live event. I went out, and we looked at some houses on the bus tour that I had going on that I hadn’t even been in myself. The team was making it happen. So through the CRM, I make offers. So what do I do? I decide how much I want to make an offer on. Right.
Jay Conner [00:33:33]:
My acquisitionist communicates that to the seller of the property. So what do I do? I make decisions. That’s all I do. I made decisions and tested new market methods. And what I actually spend most of my time doing is what I absolutely love, and that is teaching and training other real estate investors how to do this, how to get their private money, how to raise their own private money, how to automate their business, how to run a real estate investing business. And that’s back to my teacher. That’s back to having my teacher hat on. I just love teaching and being a part of people’s transformations, quite frankly.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:34:13]:
So, what do you say constitutes a good deal? What has made you say yes to one? What does that look like for you? It doesn’t matter the price range. Right. Because it’s all about the formula.
Jay Conner [00:34:23]:
Sure. It depends on how you’re going to buy it. So if you’re buying it with private money, which is what I do on most deals, here’s the formula. So this is what we call the maximum allowable offer formula. When you’re paying all cash, whether it’s your cash, private money, lenders’cash, God forbid, institutional money, because they make the rules. Anyway, here’s the formula when paying all cash. Now this is on single-familyly house. I would take the after-repair value.
Jay Conner [00:34:55]:
Now, let’s define the after-repaired value. My definition of after-repair value means this house is completely renovated. Everything’s brand new inside. It looks good, and it smells brand new. It’s ready for Southern Living magazine pictures. Okay, so it’s beautiful. So we take the after-repair value. Of course, when I’m looking at a house, it’s not in the after-repair value of shape that most of them are distressed.
Jay Conner [00:35:21]:
So my realtor knows how I’m going to renovate that house. So my realtor pulls sold comps of other houses in the area that have recently sold. They’ve been totally renovated. So we take the after-repair value, multiply by 70% if the after-repair value is less than $300,000, and if the after-repair value is more than $300,000, then we multiply by 80%. That’s calculating in my profit. And so, the bigger the numbers, the less I need as much of a discount percentage-wise. So, after repair, value times 70% if it’s less than 300,000, after repair times 80%. If it’s more than 300,000, then I take that figure, and I subtract the estimated repairs or renovation cost.
Jay Conner [00:36:12]:
Then that’s going to give me a figure. And then if it’s less than $300,000 on after-repair value, I’ll subtract another $10,000 from Murphy. And you know who Murphy is. Murphy shows up in every house. If something can go wrong, it will go wrong. Sometimes Murphy invites his cousins, aunts, and uncles. If the after-period value is over 300,000, I’ll subtract an additional $20,000. And then that bottom line figure of that formula is the absolute most that I will pay when paying all cash with private money.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:36:47]:
I’m taking notes, y’. All. That’s why I stopped. I’m just saying I’m writing as fast as Jay. I get a transcript, and I still have to write it because I hear it, I write it, and then I can implement it.
Jay Conner [00:36:57]:
There you go.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:36:57]:
Let’s take a.
Jay Conner [00:36:58]:
And by the way, that formula you will not find on HGTV because, first of all, no disrespect, but the only thing that is about reality TV is that none of it is real reality TV. So, like, on those types of shows, when they run the profit, they’ll tell you what they sold it for, they’ll tell you what they bought it for, they’ll tell you the renovation cost, maybe. And then that’s the profit. That is not the profit. That is not the profit. There’s this thing called realtor fees, and there’s this thing called carrying costs. There’s this thing called private lender interest. There’s this thing called closing costs to buy, closing costs to sell, et cetera.
Jay Conner [00:37:48]:
So excuse my diversion.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:37:51]:
And that’s where that 30, 20 to 30%. Right. That’s what you’re taking in.
Jay Conner [00:37:55]:
That’s right. That’s right.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:37:57]:
Awesome. So let’s talk about subject-to deals and lease options because they sound sexy, and I’ve done them in the past, and they’re not as sexy as they sound. Right. But they can also be complicated for newbies, which was the case for me. So can you break it down like you’re explaining it to. You’re doing a great job explaining to the layperson or grandma.
Jay Conner [00:38:14]:
Sure, sure. So, back to your first question, which was What’s your formula for buying? And my answer was, it depends on how you’re going to buy. So the formula I just went over is only when you’re buying cash, I mean paying with cash, private money, or your own cash, when you are buying, subject to the existing note, or buying on lease purchase, which, by the way, I’ll explain those briefly. But that’s what you call creative financing, or if you’re buying with seller carryback, which means the seller of the property is going to take back a note, you don’t use the maximum allowable offer formula at all for that. Because when you’re buying creatively, it all comes down to cash flow. In fact, you can buy a property, a single-family house or dwelling, and you can buy it at retail. You can pay full price retail or actually more than retail, if the monthly income, the projected monthly income, is projected to exceed the monthly debt. So it all comes down to cash flow.
Jay Conner [00:39:24]:
So let me take just a moment to explain what we’re talking about here. When you buy a property subject to the existing note, that means the seller of the property has agreed to sell you the property, transfer the title, transfer the Deed to your entity, your LLC, your land trust, whatever you’re buying in. For goodness ‘ sake, don’t buy it in your personal name. That’s another show right there. But anyway, they’re agreeing. When you buy subject to the existing note, they’re agreeing to sell you the property, and they’re agreeing to leave the mortgage in their name. And you’re agreeing to make the payments and keep them current. That is not an assumption. You are not assuming the note.
Jay Conner [00:40:06]:
That means the lender has to approve you. The lender, the original lender here, has nothing to do with this transaction whatsoever. This is an agreement between you and the seller. And by the way, your real estate attorney doesn’t have to make up anything to make this transaction happen. It’s already line 203 on the HUD settlement statement. It’s called a mortgage subject to an existing mortgage. It’s right there. And you may ask yourself who in their right mind would be willing to sell you their house and leave the mortgage in their name? I can tell you who I motivated as a seller who needs debt relief.
Jay Conner [00:40:42]:
Many reasons. Lost a job, going to foreclosure, somebody died, somebody got a divorce. They need debt relief, a nd they don’t have time. And it may cause some distress as well on the property. So that’s what subject to is purchasing on a lease purchase, which I don’t. I want to own that baby. But you can purchase on a lease option, meaning the seller of the property is willing to lease you the property and allow you to sublease it to somebody else by paying them, perhaps an option fee, if you will, a small amount. And then you can do what’s called a sandwich lease option deal, meaning you’ve lease optioned it, now you’re going to turn around and sell it on rent-to-own or lease purchase to somebody else.
Jay Conner [00:41:27]:
So, those creative ways of buying a house, it all comes down to the monthly cash flow? Can you bring in more per month than the underlying debt? And of course, another big part of that is when you sell it on rent-to-own or lease purchase, you’re going to collect a large non-refundable lease option deposit. And I’m talking, don’t accept less than 5% of the price that you’re going to sell it to someone else. So that’s where you’ll get really, really big cash flow. When you’re buying creatively like that, you can use private money in the second position. And this is an advanced strategy. So bear with me a second. But if you buy subject to the existing note, and there’s enough equity in the property, you can borrow private money and, in a junior position,d use that private money to cash flow it or perhaps do some light repairs, etc.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:42:20]:
Juicy, juicy, juicy, juicy. So what do you see? What’s one money move that you think most real estate investors, you know, newbies are making and that they overlook, and what would completely change their financial future if they implemented it?
Jay Conner [00:42:34]:
It comes down to private money. The majority of real estate investors do not use private money. They’ve got it. They’ve got in their mind this thing called fear of rejection. And you know when people say to me, well, Jay, I’m just, I’m, you know, I don’t want to ask people for money. I’m. Fear of rejection. Well, there’s the answer.
Jay Conner [00:42:54]:
I answer that question with a question. How can you have any fear of rejection if you’re never asking anybody for anything?
Dr. Susie Carder [00:43:04]:
Yes. Right. So you’ve cracked the code on private money. Automation, freedom. What’s your legacy play, and what are you building for all the success that you’re creating for you and Carol Joy?
Jay Conner [00:43:16]:
Yes, that’s a great question. We have a very, very close affinity and love for a small Christian college, a private Christian college down in Florida. It’s called Florida College. It’s in Temple Terrace, Florida. And the legacy that we’re building. Actually, I’m not building a legacy for my name. Cause, you know, in 50 or 100 years, nobody’s going to know who Jay Conner is anyway. It doesn’t matter.
Jay Conner [00:43:44]:
Down the road, I’m building a legacy for God and in service. So that’s. That’s what we’re striving for. And, you know, when you just asked that question, Dr. Susie, it triggered a quick little story I want to share, and I’ll make it quick. You know, you get to a point in life where you probably start. I mean, when you start to, quote, unquote, make it, and you ask yourself, ” Why am I doing all this?
Dr. Susie Carder [00:44:12]:
Why?
Jay Conner [00:44:13]:
Why? I mean, why? Which ties into the legacy question. And I was going down the road with a dear friend of mine a couple of years ago. We were traveling here, around town, going around town, and he looked at me, and his name is Neil. And he looked at me, and he said, ” Jay, I got a question for you. I said, ” Okay. ” He said, ‘ Why are you doing everything you do? He said, ” You know, you don’t need to. He says, You could sit at home if you wanted to, but why are you traveling the country? Why are you speaking at all these conferences and working all these hours when you don’t have to? And, and I said, well, I said, Neil, I said, I think I know what you’re asking, but ask it in a little bit different ways.
Jay Conner [00:45:01]:
Well, how do you reconcile that when the apostle Paul in the Bible says to be content with whatever station of life you’re in? How do you reconcile that? He says, really, what I’m asking, Jay, is when is enough enough? I said, Neill, I understand your question now, and here’s the answer. Enough is never enough when it’s not about you.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:45:28]:
Amen. Amen to that one, my brother Jay. Right? So listen, if we didn’t light a fire under your strategy, financial strategy, or at least get your curiosity, well, I don’t know what will because I got my curiosity. I got two and a half pages of notes from my friend Jay, right? And I’ve been a savvy real estate investor. Still like learning. So Jay just dropped a master class on how to kiss goodbye to the bank and raise millions like a total boss, without begging, without stress, without working 80 hours a week. And what I love, if Jay can do it, you can do it, right? And he puts his teacher hat on. So if you’re ready to stop playing small, and I know you are, and you’re ready to start using other people’s money, and you just need the how-to.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:46:14]:
You need my brother Jay. So, how can we get hold of you? How can we find you so that we can jump on the J bandwagon and use other people’s money?
Jay Conner [00:46:23]:
I love the Jay bandwagon. I’ve been a guest on over 800 shows, and nobody’s ever talked about the J bandwagon. So you got a first there, Dr. Susie.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:46:31]:
I love it.
Jay Conner [00:46:32]:
So the best way to connect with me is in two ways. The first way I would love to give you a gift is because you are listening to Dr. Susie’s show here. Dr. Susie Carter. And that is my recent best-selling book, Where to Get the Money, now with the subtitle ” How and Where to Get Money for All Your Real Estate Deals Without Relying on Hard Money Lenders or Traditional Lenders. And this is not an ebook; this is actually a book. You know the post office is still in business.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:47:02]:
It’s a real book.
Jay Conner [00:47:04]:
That’s right. So anyway, don’t spend 20 bucks on Amazon. I’d love to autograph the book for you. The book’s free, just covers shipping, and you can pick up the book. I’ll rush it out to you. Three-day expedited express Delivery www.JayConner.com/Book, and I’ll autograph it, rush it right out again. That’s, and I’m an ER, not an OR, www.JayConner.com/Book.
Jay Conner [00:47:35]:
I’ll rush, he But I’m also going to include as an additional gift two tickets to my private money conference valued at three. Hello there, I’m Jay Conner.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:47:44]:
Simultaneously, because I was pushing buttons, he was telling me to go somewhere. I’m a good teacher because I’m a good student. I’m doing exactly what Jake told me to do over here.
Jay Conner [00:47:54]:
But yeah, I’m including with the book two free tickets to my upcoming conference, which is called the Private Money Conference. Buy it for $3,000. I’m going to include those tickets with the book. And finally, come check out my podcast. I’m in the eighth year of my podcast, and the name of the podcast is Raising Private Money. So whatever your favorite platform is. Now what do I do? Who knows? I might even have Dr. Susie on the show.
Jay Conner [00:48:21]:
I’m interviewing people every week. I have two shows a week. Monday morning, Thursday morning, I release them, and I’m all the time interviewing other real estate investors who have raised private money. Some a few hundred thousand, some in the hundreds of millions of dollars. And I picked their brain on my show about how they go about raising private money. We have a lot of fun. Come join the party at Raising Private Money with Jay Conner.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:48:50]:
Look, and if you aren’t on the bandwagon yet, this wagon may not be for you. So if you love this conversation, and I know you did, right, don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share the power of your profits podcast because somebody in your community needs Jay, somebody needs this conversation. Somebody needs a new insight, and we are serving straight-up million-dollar strategies every single week. And if you’re wondering where you stand in your business, whether you’re thriving or just surviving, head over to our free health business assessment. It’s fast, it’s powerful, it’s easy. I’ll have all of Jay’s information in our show. Notes. Don’t sit on this.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:49:26]:
Don’t wait on this. If it’s calling your spirit, I always say it’s God knocking. That’s the dog getting the door, right? I want you to jump. So until next time, keep building your empire. And remember, you weren’t born to play small. You were born to be a genius. So let’s go, let’s make it happen. Jay, thank you so much for your time, your energy, and your knowledge.
Dr. Susie Carder [00:49:48]:
Cut that head off. There’s Jules, my brother. So thank you so much.
Jay Conner [00:49:52]:
Thank you so much. Dr. Susie. Thank you for having me.
Narrator [00:50:28]:
Are you feeling inspired by the knowledge you gained in this episode? Then head over to www.JayConner.com/MoneyGuide and download your free guide that shares seven reasons why private money will skyrocket your real estate investing business, right now. Again, that’s www.JayConner.com/MoneuGuide to get your free guide. We’ll see you next time on Raising Private Money with Jay Conner.