In a recent episode of Raising Private Money, Jay Conner welcomed Nic DeAngelo, founder and CEO of Saint Investment Group, for a deep dive into what it really takes to build wealth in today’s economic climate. With years of experience and a portfolio surpassing $200 million, Nic is a recognized figure in real estate known for his data-driven investment strategies. Their conversation unpacked critical perspectives on inflation, Wall Street, and the future of smart investing.
Navigating the Age of Inflation
Nic DeAngelo started by explaining an unsettling outlook: we are likely in the early stages of a long-term inflationary period. He pointed to America’s unprecedented government spending and ballooning national debt as major drivers. Both Republican and Democratic administrations, Nic noted, have participated in massive fiscal expansion, leading to a scenario where, for the first time in history, interest payments on the national debt could soon exceed even programs like Social Security. Combine that with an aging, risk-averse baby boomer population and ongoing money printing, and it’s clear why inflationary pressures are here to stay.
This inflation isn’t just an abstract economic trend—it has tangible impacts on everyday Americans, eroding wage gains and increasing the cost of living. Nic emphasized that so far, neither political party has staged a serious intervention to address the root causes, and both raising taxes and cutting spending present tough, politically unpalatable options.
What Wall Street Is Getting Wrong
A central theme of the episode was Nic DeAngelo’s take on Wall Street’s current state. He argued that Wall Street is fundamentally broken for everyday investors. Where stock market diversification once gave Main Street a fair shot, the number of public companies has dropped by over 40% since the 1990s, and more promising companies are choosing to stay private, leaving public markets top-heavy and driven by a handful of major tech firms. This has skewed returns and made it harder for investors to rely on Wall Street for consistent growth.
Nic highlighted another concern: the market’s addiction to hype. With exuberance around artificial intelligence and other trends, prices have surged well above underlying value by most metrics. It’s no longer a level playing field, and timing the market has become riskier than ever.
Why Real Estate Remains the Solution
Against this backdrop, Nic DeAngelo believes that real estate, and specifically private lending secured by real estate, stands out as a superior wealth-building tool. His conviction rests on classic economic fundamentals like supply and demand. The U.S. is short millions of single-family homes, and demand remains consistent, creating lasting pricing power and stability. While this shortage has made home buying more difficult for first-time buyers, it also means strong, long-term prospects for real estate investors.
What sets Nic apart is his approach to investing in the debt—lending against real estate rather than direct ownership. He maintains that this strategy delivers exposure to the asset class’s upside while avoiding many operational headaches. It also provides better returns than today’s traditional bonds, revitalizing the fixed-income portion of an investor’s portfolio at a time when stocks and bonds are moving in tandem, undermining the old 60/40 allocation model.
The Future: Opportunity Amidst Uncertainty
Looking ahead three to five years, Nic DeAngelo predicts that smart investors who position themselves correctly in private real estate debt and U.S. manufacturing will outperform those clinging to Wall Street’s conventional wisdom. He stressed that the largest investment groups have already moved significant resources away from stocks and bonds and into alternative assets, especially real estate.
He also addressed the role of technology, particularly artificial intelligence. While he’s optimistic about AI’s long-term potential, he warned that many current opportunities in the space are overhyped and lack solid fundamentals.
Action Steps for Investors
Both Jay Conner and Nic DeAngelo advocate for investors to take control, educate themselves on macroeconomic trends, and consider diversifying into real, physical assets like real estate. Those focused on stability and long-term returns, such as retirees and business owners seeking consistent passive income, are best positioned to benefit from these trends.
In a landscape where traditional strategies no longer guarantee success, the ability to anticipate economic shifts and act on solid data—rather than hype—is more important than ever. The insights shared by Jay Conner and Nic DeAngelo provide a valuable roadmap for anyone seeking to build lasting wealth in uncertain times.
10 Discussion Questions from this Episode:
- Jay Conner mentions that smart investors aren’t chasing deals but are positioning based on economic trends. What does it mean to “invest based on where the economy is going,” and how might this approach differ from traditional investment strategies?
- According to the episode, the U.S. is experiencing significant upward pressure on inflation. What are the main factors contributing to this, as outlined by Jay Conner’s guest, and how do these factors impact the everyday investor?
- The concept of a “debt bubble” is discussed at length. What is a debt bubble, and why is it considered problematic for the future of the U.S. economy?
- Jay Conner’s guest argues that the U.S. government has a spending problem rather than a revenue problem. Do you agree with this assessment? Why or why not?
- The guest claims that “Wall Street is broken and real estate is the cure.” What specific issues does he identify with the stock market, and how does he see real estate as a better option for investors?
- Many companies are choosing to stay private rather than go public on the stock market. What are the implications of this trend for individual investors and the perceived diversification of the stock market?
- Fixed income investing and a shift away from the traditional 60/40 stocks and bonds portfolio are highlighted as major trends among sophisticated investors. How might the rise of real estate debt funds and other alternative assets reshape the average investor’s portfolio in the coming years?
- Artificial intelligence (AI) is described as both a powerful tool and a current area of market “hype.” Based on the episode, what are the guest’s concerns about investing in AI-related sectors, and what realistic role does he see AI playing for investors?
- The shortage of single-family homes in the U.S. is presented as a major investment opportunity. What demographic and economic factors are driving this shortage, and how can investors best position themselves to benefit?
- Thinking ahead three to five years, what strategies did Jay Conner’s guest recommend for building wealth, and what do you see as the key risks and opportunities in following such a strategy?
Fun facts that were revealed in the episode:
- Nic DeAngelo has built a real estate portfolio worth over $200 million across more than 20 states, and his firm is on pace to raise over $100 million a year. Talk about scaling the American dream!
- Since 2020, over 80% of all US dollars ever printed have been printed. Nic DeAngelo points out that a dollar from 1913 now has the same buying power as $100 today. That’s some serious inflation trivia!
- Nic DeAngelo reveals that even if the US government confiscated every billionaire’s fortune, it would fund only about nine months of federal spending—a mind-blowing illustration of how massive US government spending is.
Timestamps:
00:00 Smart investing strategies with Nic
05:46 Debate on taxes and spending
07:12 US debt and inflation issues
12:33 Stock market concentration concerns
14:50 Real estate as an inflation hedge
17:29 Single-family home market dynamics
22:33 Joining Tiger 21 and investing strategies
24:42 Concerns about AI’s profitability
29:21 AI’s impact on jobs and the economy
30:44 Investing in private mortgage space
33:27 Understanding our investor demographics
34:14 Connect with Nic DeAngelo
https://www.SaintInvestment.com/Book
35:40 How To Start A Conversation With a Potential Private Lender
https://www.JayConner.com/Scripts
36:29 Ending the episode with a plug
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Economic Truths That Will Change Your Investment Strategy Forever with Nic DeAngelo
Jay Conner [00:00:01]:
Are you trusting Wall Street to fund your retirement, or are you building something you actually control? Well, what if I told you that smart investors right now aren’t chasing deals, they’re positioning based on where the economy is going next? And what if real estate isn’t just an investment, but the solution to a broken financial system? Welcome to Raising Private Money. I’m Jay Conner, the Private Money Authority. And today you’re in for a masterclass. You see, I’ve got Nic DeAngelo with me, known in the real estate circles as the fixed-income goat. And this isn’t just hype. This guy has built a portfolio north of $200 million across more than 20 states with hundreds of deals and loans under his belt. But here’s what makes this conversation different. Nic doesn’t just invest in real estate.
Jay Conner [00:00:57]:
He invests based on economic signals. He studies where the market is going and then positions his capital and his investors’ capital ahead of the curve. He’s the founder and CEO of Sane Investment Group, acquiring institutional-grade assets nationwide and on pace to raise over $100 million a year. Yes, the name of this show is Raising Private Money. And here’s the real reason you need to lean in. Nic has a gift for taking complex economic ideas and turning them into simple, actionable strategies you can actually use to fund your deals and build wealth. So if you want to stop guessing, start predicting. Raise private money with confidence.
Jay Conner [00:01:42]:
You’re going to love this episode. In just a moment, you’re going to meet my guest, Nic DeAngelo, right after this.
Narrator [00:01:52]:
If you’re a real estate investor and are wondering how to raise and leverage private money to make more profit on every deal, then you’re in the right place to raise private money. We’ll speak with new and seasoned investors to dissect their deals and extract the best tips and strategies to help you get the money. Because the money comes first. Now here’s your host, Jay Conner.
Jay Conner [00:02:20]:
Nic, welcome to the show.
Nic DeAngelo [00:02:23]:
Jay, great to be here. Great catching up with you beforehand. I’ve been looking forward to us getting to sit down and have some fun, talk about some good economic data, and some capital raising. Two of my favorite things.
Jay Conner [00:02:35]:
Yes, we are going to have fun. So let’s go ahead and dive in. Let’s start here. Nic, are we already in the early stages of a long-term inflation decade? And if so, what? Are most investors still getting it completely wrong?
Nic DeAngelo [00:02:54]:
Oh, man, great question. And so let’s dive in. First off, let me say, I believe, yes, I believe we have upward pressures on inflation for the next decade plus. And there are a few reasons for that. There are actually quite a few. But here’s the big ones. One, we are in a debt bubble in the United States. We are printing $2 trillion a year.
Nic DeAngelo [00:03:15]:
That’s on both sides of the aisle. We saw this under Trump, we saw this under Biden. We see we’re printing a billion dollars a day to fund a war in Iran, et cetera, et cetera. So across the board, we are overspending,g and we’re not bringing in enough at the government level. The estimates are that we’ll be paying a trillion dollars in just interest payments on our debt in the next few years. That’s more than we even spent on Social Security. So that’s one. The other side is that we have a baby boomer generation, the largest and wealthiest generation we’ve ever had, that is looking for safer, lower-return, long-term investing strategies.
Nic DeAngelo [00:03:58]:
So the days of cheap capital are behind us on that. And now what do we see in the marketplace today? We see that the annualized inflation that we’re looking at is right around 3.3%. And that’s after five years, since 2020, we have printed over 80% of every US dollar that has ever existed in U.S. history. We see that a hundred dollars, or excuse me, we see that $1 in 1913 is worth $100 today. So those are scary statistics to me. Those are scary facts to me. So the real question is, I mean, you have a high-end audience, a sophisticated audience.
Nic DeAngelo [00:04:37]:
How do you be on the right side of that for investing? What does that mean for the day-to-day American and investor, et cetera? These are big questions, but in my mind, if you look at the biggest names, Goldman Sachs, Warren Buffett, Morgan Stanley, they see stock market returns over the next decade not being what they were and what we’ve come to expect. And most are projecting higher inflation on their side. I think it’s going to be even a little more extreme.
Jay Conner [00:05:03]:
Now you talk about a debt bubble. What is a debt bubble?
Nic DeAngelo [00:05:08]:
So let’s think about something that snowballs, right? One thing leads to another, leads to another. It’s a spiral effect, if you will. Now there are two types of spirals. There are upward spirals, positive things, things that, you know, virtuous spirals, things that build on top of themselves and go in the right direction. That’s the opposite of the debt problem that we have in the US today. The debt problem we have in the US today is that we’re approaching 40 trillion in debt. And the reality is, both sides of the aisle have different ways of getting voters. And most of those, almost all of those are on the, on the efforts of spending more money.
Nic DeAngelo [00:05:46]:
Okay, so on the right, consistently, we talk about lower taxes, we talk, you know, you know, increasing business and wanting to do that, but a lot of lower taxes. And we do see some wars pop up on that end. And then on the left, there’s not even a discussion about cutting government programs and cutting spending. It’s spending more. So we really see that neither side has a solution to the debt problem we have in the US, and the reality is the top expenditures that we have, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, et cetera, these are very difficult to cut politically. Right. So if you even have that discussion, which those top, you know, three or four categories represent 75% of spending in the U.S., we don’t have a solution to the debt problem.
Nic DeAngelo [00:06:30]:
So if we extrapolate that out, knowing that we’re unlikely to change, that 2 trillion a year that we’re spending likely only ramps up over time, that deficit spending of 2 trillion a year. And now we see that our debt interest is only increasing over time. So this is a negative spiral, this is a downward spiral. On the debt side, our debt-to-GDP ratio is increasing. That’s not good. You know, I think the saving grace that we have here is the fact that no matter how much we can beat up on the US, and I do because I love the US 100%, it’s the most investable country in the world. It’s not even close. If you compare the US to all the things we just talked about to the rest of the world, it’s so much worse everywhere else.
Nic DeAngelo [00:07:12]:
So even though we need to get this on track, we need to get our spending on track, and we need to get our debt problem in the US on track. We are still the premier economy, we are still the premier currency, and there’s really not even a second place. So what does all that mean? We are in a downward spiral of debt that literally leads to inflation. And what we see on the American people’s level, what Americans experience day to day, is that their wage growth is exceeded by the amount of inflation that we have in the US today consistently. So that leads to a more expensive cost of living, which leads to a lowered quality of lifestyle and quality of life. And so that’s a concern. That’s something that we need to resolve. And more government spending is not going to bridge the gap.
Jay Conner [00:08:01]:
Is there actually a way, Nic, to resolve the problem? Of the downward spiral that you’re talking about, even if politics could be put aside.
Nic DeAngelo [00:08:14]:
So at the simplest level, this is why I like economics, right, it’s, there’s core, core fundamentals. If you look at the spending problem in the US, it’s really just a revenues versus expenses problem. So how do we resolve that? I don’t have good solutions that are painless, but the solutions that, that we see are that we need to raise more money, likely by adjusting taxes to some degree. And then, you know, and, and I’m not far off from that taxation is theft crowd. I’m not far off from that, right? So I’m more libertarian at my core. I’m a political independent. So on that side, that’s a painful thing for me to say.
Nic DeAngelo [00:08:50]:
That’s probably at the bottom of my list of things that I find interesting from a political side. But we just don’t raise enough in the economy. We just don’t raise enough revenues. And the bigger issue, the bigger issue in my opinion, is that government spending is out of control. Whether that’s anywhere from, you know, Social Security to Medicare, Medicaid, et cetera. Our solution in the past has been just to keep spending more. Now there’s this discussion of taxing the rich. Okay, here’s an interesting stat, Jay.
Nic DeAngelo [00:09:18]:
Here’s one that blew me away. So we talk about taxing the rich in the U.S., what if we just took it to the extreme, right? Because there’s a lot of hate on billionaires. There’s a lot of hate on high net worth in the US right now. What if we took it to the absolute communist extreme and said that we would round up every billionaire in the United States, we would round up every dollar that they had, and steal it. The most extreme example possible, if we took every billionaire dollar and stole it. The reality is that this equates to nine months of spending for the US government. So that’s a one-time theft, right? You can’t do that twice.
Nic DeAngelo [00:09:56]:
And those individuals with their brain power and their ability to run large-scale businesses and employ hundreds and hundreds of thousands and millions of people, they’re out of this country. They ain’t coming back if they get thieved for, you know, every dollar and cent that they have. So in that case, we know for a fact that just breaking the backs of billionaires doesn’t get us there either. So at the end of the day, I see this solely, number one, no question, as a spending problem in the United States, and that we need to adjust government spending first and foremost to a way that makes us at least get into ranges where we can outgrow. Right now, that’s not the case. Right now, our debt’s growing faster than our GDP. And that’s what keeps me up at night about the U.S. government.
Jay Conner [00:10:39]:
Nic, you’ve said Wall Street is broken, and real estate is the cure. I quote. That’s a pretty bold statement. What specifically is broken about Wall Street? And why hasn’t the average investor figured it out yet?
Nic DeAngelo [00:10:58]:
Oh, that’s a good question. So there are a couple of layers to it, but here’s the core. If you look at Wall Street, it had a lot of advantages for the everyday investor for decades, right? For 100 years, we’ve looked at Wall Street as the great equalizer. Because what it did was it gave us, everyday investors, everyday Americans, the ability to own pieces, stocks, AKA own equity in large companies that were successful. They were, you know, headline companies. They were well known; they were highly trusted. The reality is that it was a diversification play in many ways. The everyday investor could choose whether it was they buy a piece of, you know, an ETF for the S&P 500 or they buy individual stocks.
Nic DeAngelo [00:11:39]:
Whatever their choice was, they could get into ownership of these companies and benefit from the success of these companies. That has shifted, and that has not made headline news to the degree that it should have. So what we’ve seen since 1996. So in the last 30 years, what we’ve seen is that the number of companies in the stock market has reduced by over 40%. Okay, so that’s one shocking statistic. On its own, diversification is not the same word that it used to mean when applied to the stock market previously. During the same window, since 1996, the number of companies staying private and going with venture capital has gone up by 6×6 times. So we’re seeing a huge drop in the number of companies in the stock market and a huge rise in companies that are staying private, working with venture capital, investment groups, etc.
Nic DeAngelo [00:12:33]:
So what does all that mean for the everyday investor? It means that the stock market is overweighted. It means that the stock market is less diversified than it ever has been. And if you look at the top 10 companies in the S P 500, then what you see is that they represent over 70% of market value. So out of 500 companies, you have 10 that represent well over two-thirds of market value, and then 490 companies that represent 25 to 30% of market value at any given time. So diversification for the stock market is out the window. If you look at the last 12 months of the stock market, we’re up in the high 30s range of returns now. I don’t think anybody would argue that 500 companies in the US are doing 38% better as businesses. So what does that mean? It means that in the US, we are addicted to looking at the stock market as the most investable asset class.
Nic DeAngelo [00:13:34]:
Used to be stocks and bonds. Bonds have some concerns right now, and a lot of people aren’t going that direction. But the stock market is not what it used to be. Simply put, when you dig into numbers like the CAPE ratio, things that are, you know, comparing the cost-adjusted price to earnings ratios, we can see from third-party metrics if the stock market is overvalued. What the CAPE ratio shows is that the stock market is roughly overvalued by 35 to 38% today. So all those gains over the last year are basically putting us into an overvalued, overheated stock market territory. So that’s my biggest concern. That’s the core concern that I have with the stock market right now.
Nic DeAngelo [00:14:17]:
And then you layer on things like the fact that every company that mentions AI is getting a huge boost to their price-to-earnings and all these buzzwords, rather than sticking to the fundamentals of business.
Jay Conner [00:14:29]:
Makes a lot of sense, Nic. Now, one thing you do is you invest based on where the economy is going, not where it is. So what are some maybe two or three economic signals you’re watching today that most investors might be ignoring?
Nic DeAngelo [00:14:50]:
Sure. These are the trends we’re seeing, and I’ll give you the background of why we have this approach and why we look into this approach. My background’s real estate. I’m a real estate dog. So just to be really clear, my bias is that I like real estate mostly, or one of the top reasons is because it’s a physical asset. So when we look at inflation trends over the next year, or excuse me, over the next decade, and we expect that inflation is going to have upward pressures, which we’re seeing right now, then what we see is that hard assets, physical assets, things that you can touch that are real, typically benefit from inflationary environments. And we have a long history in the US of seeing that. So, one, I like real estate.
Nic DeAngelo [00:15:32]:
Two, I used to invest on the syndication side. We were pros. We are pros at the industrial space, specifically. I love industrial in the United States. I’m a huge fan of bringing manufacturing back to the US, and I think that, honestly, is a solution for a huge amount of the problems that we see today. But the biggest question I had on the syndication side was that I work with very sophisticated investors, and it’s a blessing, but it’s also a chin check. So when we work with, you know, I started with two family offices that I work for. I ended up running their acquisition divisions.
Nic DeAngelo [00:16:05]:
I ended up running their asset management. These are people that I’m dear friends to this day. If there’s one thing that I took away from these multi-generational family offices, it was this. You need to be thinking a decade plus ahead. These guys think generations ahead. It’s extremely impressive. But what I saw was the trend that really alarmed me and concerned me, and really readjusted our sites was that they were shifting to fixed returns, they were shifting to stability over craziness in the marketplace. And that’s what I think we’re seeing in many different markets today.
Nic DeAngelo [00:16:38]:
That’s what I think the story of the last five years has been, is really the everything bubble where everything’s overpriced. There’s inflation across the board for asset classes. So the trend of inflation that I kind of mentioned, priority, I think that the action on the back end is to find things that benefit from inflation. I think real estate’s going to be the premier asset class there. And what we leaned into was one thing above all else: investing in the debt behind real estate. So it’s investing in real estate. It allows us to be in multiple markets at a time. I think single-family homes.
Nic DeAngelo [00:17:13]:
For all the crazy headlines up, down, sideways that you see on single-family homes, I think the fundamentals of single-family homes over the next decade are the strongest investable asset class in real estate today.
Jay Conner [00:17:26]:
Now, why do you think that?
Nic DeAngelo [00:17:29]:
So single-family homes are an absolutely blessed asset class in the US, and I can go through, you know, an infinite amount of reasons, but back to economic fundamentals. Supply, demand, right? If you look at single-family homes, we have a consistent demand. We have a consistent demand over time. And on the supply side, we have a shortfall. So we know from supply-demand imbalances that if we have a shortfall on supply and we have a high, consistent demand, that pricing stability is typically there. The shortfall is anywhere from 4 to 6 million homes that we have in the U, S and the back end of that, what we’ve seen is, is that there are significant huge amounts of price increases in single-family homes. If you look at the last five years, where we’ve also printed 2 trillion a year during that period of time, since 20, 26 years, excuse me, then what we’ve seen is that there’s a huge increase, a huge run up,p roughly 47, 50 plus percent in the value of single-family homes in that short period of time. On one hand, that’s a nightmare for first-time homebuyers.
Nic DeAngelo [00:18:37]:
Let’s just get that out of the way. This is an extremely difficult time to be buying your first home. It’s extremely unaffordable. We’ve seen rates jump up significantly, etc. But on the other hand, there’s the benefit that we have the largest amount of equity in single-family homes that we’ve ever had in American history. So I think that the supply shortfall of 4 to 6 million homes is creating a very investable environment to invest in single-family homes. On our side, we like the debt component. It allows us to get in, it allows us to increase returns beyond owning, you know, 600 homes or something like that, and having to manage those from an asset management standpoint.
Nic DeAngelo [00:19:17]:
So we found that as the perfect fit for long-term stability. Again, we run a fixed-income fund. So we’re looking 10 years in the future. We need to make sure we can continue to produce for our investors on that side. And that’s what we found is the best asset class in real estate today.
Jay Conner [00:19:32]:
You may know the name, Jason Hartman. He’s got an amazing podcast as well. Jason has a lot of the same type of conversations that you and I are having. He’s a good friend. We’re in a mastermind together. And, and he’s a, he says the same thing. He says we’re going to have a shortage of single-family homes for quite a long time. Right.
Jay Conner [00:19:52]:
Like they, they can’t, like even the builders can’t keep up. And of course, it’s not just single-family homes. It’s like housing, like, like housing in general, whether people are buying or they’re renting or whatever. Now you, Nic, you talk about income investing, income Investing, having a 10x potential. Break that down for us. What does that actually look like for a real estate investor?
Nic DeAngelo [00:20:19]:
Sure. So the 10x potential that we’re referring to is the stability that goes into it. So it’s not necessarily a return perspective. Right. You’re not going to get 10x returns on fixed income investing, but the fixed income side of a portfolio is rising dramatically. So when we see people take their portfolios as broken down, and you look at some of the biggest names, whether it’s BlackRock, and you look at how they’re investing, and that real estate is taking up a massive portion of their portfolio, let me back up. What we’ve seen over the last handful of decades is the 6040 portfolio, right? 60% stocks, 40% bonds, right. The reason that was so compelling for so long was that when stocks were doing well, bonds were typically returning less.
Nic DeAngelo [00:21:08]:
And then on the flip side, when stocks were having a bad day or a bad period, bonds were picking up the pace there, and they balanced each other out. It was a good strategy. And because they were non-correlated, they were reverse correlated, which is the term there. That said, what we’ve seen in the last handful of years is that they have started being more correlated. That removes that 60:40 portfolio advantage, not to mention all the things we already said on the stock market. So when you now zoom back in, and you look at the big groups, the sophisticated investment groups that are, you know, have entire teams just to analyze all the different levels of economic data, they are leaning into other asset classes. They are getting away from 60% in equities, they’re getting away from 40% in bonds. They’re replacing their bond income, that fixed income component to their portfolio.
Nic DeAngelo [00:22:00]:
They are putting the fixed-income investment dollars of their portfolio towards other fixed-income investment options. You see real estate, you see some other options there. And then on the equity side, they’re putting that towards real estate more, more, more at a much higher rate than they used to do. So we see this consistently, BlackRock being, you know, what, you know, 10 plus trillion under management. They, they might know a thing or two. Their portfolio breakdown is available for you to take a look at. You can find that online. Another one that I think is a broader scope that’s really helpful that I look at regularly.
Nic DeAngelo [00:22:33]:
Tiger 21. To be part of Tiger 21, I think the minimum investable is equity that you have in cash in hand. Capital on hand is something like 10 to 15 million, depending on which group you want to join in the US for Tiger 21; they have that same breakdown, and they are shifting away to that. So the huge upside of fixed income investing is the fact that now you have higher returns than bonds generated from a fixed income perspective, from things like real estate with long-term outlooks. And that allows you to take shots on larger upside opportunities. On the equity side, things like real estate, things like that will generate over the Next, you know, 10 years, higher returns on that side. They balance each other out in a similar way to that old 6040 portfolio. So it’s a similar concept, but it’s updated for what the market conditions look like today. So that’s where the huge upside potential is, getting higher returns, that old, you know, 4ish percent bond, and it is not looking as shiny when you have fixed income funds paying 10, 12% on that side.
Nic DeAngelo [00:23:38]:
So you’re already getting multiple, multiple increases on the fixed income component. And then you have the stability to go invest in bigger upside projects as well, many with tax advantages, etc. So we’ve seen portfolio breakdowns have 10x returns over the classic 6040 just by diversifying and splitting their portfolio more towards other investment strategies that are outside of that traditional 60:40 bond stock.
Jay Conner [00:24:08]:
Let’s talk about the investors at large. I mean, they might be into real estate investing, they might be into stocks, it doesn’t matter. Just for the investor at large, let’s say you got an investor you’re talking to and they’re nervous right now. Uncertain markets, you know, inflation like we’ve been talking about. With what’s going on in the market, where would you advise them not to be putting their money over the next 12 to 24 months? And why?
Nic DeAngelo [00:24:42]:
So I’m an industrial dog on the, on the real estate side. I’ve spent a lot of hours on the, in the industrial side. What I’ve seen, being close to that industrial sector, is this concern of the impossibility of delivering on returns for AI data centers and for certain AI companies that are in the ecosystem. I think AI is a tool that will truly revolutionize business in general. But when you start drilling down into the components of many of these things, I think they’re very overstated to say the least. So my concern right now,w where I would start holding a little steady and really kind of, you know, sharpening the pencil on what that looks like, is if you’re looking at AI projects, there are serious questions of where the hell does the energy come from. That’s a very obvious one. There’s one of how do these AI companies with record debt ever, ever, ever draw a real profit and have real, real net income? So I think AI has a track record in the future that will be extremely positive and will definitely revolutionize many different aspects of the business world.
Nic DeAngelo [00:25:53]:
But as an investable asset class, I’m looking at deal by deal by deal with a lot of concerns and a lot of skepticism that the returns and the hype will live up to the expectations. That’s the number one concern I see in the market today.
Jay Conner [00:26:06]:
Well, now, speaking of AI, as we know, AI is changing everything. Changing everything. You know, when the Internet was coming along, they were saying, oh, Everybody’s gonna be losing their job because the Internet’s going to take everybody’s job. And of course, all the Internet did was create more job opportunities. I don’t know if that’s going to be the case with AI or not, but it’s changing everything. How do you see AI, if at all,l giving investors? Because you’re skeptical, you just mentioned that. But do you see AI now being able to give investors an edge or wiping out those who don’t adapt? I don’t know. What do you think?
Nic DeAngelo [00:26:51]:
So I’ll give you, I’ll give you the statistic that’s pulled, I think, from an MIT study. They reviewed companies that went all in on AI, and many of these companies let go of staff. Many of these companies, you know, downsized, etc. 85% of those polled found AI to have a net negative impact on their company. I’ll leave that there. I, I’ll leave it to your audience to check out the details of that MIT study. But let me get back to more of a positive approach because I actually have a positive outlook on AI Net. Net. The reality is, I think AI is misunderstood as far as what it’s capable of today.
Nic DeAngelo [00:27:27]:
I’ll say that, and you know, be upfront with it. I think AI is probably the most powerful too,l side by side with a big-brained smart operator in the business world. Whether that’s a mid-level executive, whether that’s somebody underwriting deals, whether that’s somebody trying to distill and understand detailed points of a unique marketplace to invest in, etc. AI speeds that up infinitely, infinitely, infinitely. But I think it’s a, it’s a spot check on human work and human understanding. And AI is not a set it and forget it tool today. There are a lot of automations that it can do that are great with, you know, marketing and you know, investor communications, and things that we have a lot of benefits from and see a lot of value from on that side to make sure that things are sped up in a great way and efficiently. But on the flip side, I do not see AI as a tool of set it and forget it.
Nic DeAngelo [00:28:22]:
And Jay, you kind of said this with, with you know, the Internet, or if we go, you know, way back and go crazy over the printing press, or you know, any automations or robotics that’ve come up in the meantime. I believe that when you look at every technological revolution that we’ve had, you know, the last five at least, is really what I looked into quite a bit. It’s created Net more jobs on the back end. Not to say there aren’t pain periods, right? Because you know, I have a lot of family in Detroit, and I’ve had a lot of discussions about how it’s impacted robotics, etc. Machining, etc. Has impacted the workforce in Detroit. Decimated, completely crushed in the auto industry because when some, you know, individual used to screw in tires every single day, screw in wheels to cars every single day, that’s now replaced by a robot doing that job or a tool doing that job, etc. So, there are people who will be massively displaced, and there are people who will be massively affected.
Nic DeAngelo [00:29:21]:
But I believe that the net result of AI is actually more jobs on the back end. I think that we in the US do need to prioritize AI. Even though there are a lot of companies that are concerned with how they’re implementing that. I still think we need an AI focus because being the world leader in AI, I think, adds a ton of jobs, a ton of GDP, and, you know, we talk about debt bubbles, we talk about, you know, not enough revenues for too much spending, and expenditures on the government level. I think AI can really bridge that gap in a big way over the coming years if we lean into it. So I have a net positive over the next decade or so with AI. I think that it will produce positive results, more jobs, huge growth for the economy, etc, but in the short term, I think people are only over relying on it and misunderstanding the capabilities of AI in the workplace. And you see studies like this MIT study saying 85% of those polled did not see net benefits of AI.
Nic DeAngelo [00:30:21]:
And I think that’s just from the fact that they are implementing it in the ways that it’s not supposed to be, or not ready for today.
Jay Conner [00:30:28]:
Nic, I want you to fast-forward three to five years. If someone follows your philosophy and plays this cycle right, what kind of position could they realistically be in compared to the average investor?
Nic DeAngelo [00:30:44]:
So I’ll tell you what I’m doing personally. You know, we have, we run a fund. We get the ability to see all kinds of deals, all kinds of market trends from a boots on the ground perspective. I personally am investing in two areas. Above all else, I’m investing in the mortgage space in the US. I think the private mortgage space is exploding in the US because banks are unwilling or uninterested in really having large portfolios over a long period of time. I think banks have become origination machines today,y and that they really lean on that. When you look at where they’re generating their revenue and their cash flow, etc. And I think the private lending space to real estate specifically has a huge opportunity over the next decade.
Nic DeAngelo [00:31:27]:
So I’m leaning heavily into that side. That’s where my investment dollars are going first and foremost. And then, and then I think manufacturing in the United States, I think we understand both sides of the aisle. One of the few things they agree on, yes, everybody’s mad at China. That’s both sides of the aisles, le too. And yes, everybody has, you know, different opinions on basically everything else. But one of the things that we’ve seen from the Biden administration to the Trump administration is this focus on manufacturing in the U, and I think it’s well placed. I, I think the reality is that if we bring manufacturing back to the U.S.
Nic DeAngelo [00:32:01]:
It’s not only national security on one side, but I think then we own and have incorporated huge value add, and you know, a whole chain of supply chain value down the line where that’s short on the U.S,. so between those two things, I think real estate debt over the next 10 years on the private side, private companies doing debt is a huge opportunity. Investing with those groups or doing it yourself, I mean, there are many opportunities there. And then on the other side, I think manufacturing and industry in the US have the biggest opportunity over the next decade.
Jay Conner [00:32:37]:
Nic, who is your ideal client to invest in your fund, and how can they find out more about that opportunity to invest with you?
Nic DeAngelo [00:32:49]:
Sure. Well, we love our investors. You know, we shifted to retail investors and working with, you know, a wider group of Americans. So here’s who we see consistently that we’re the best fit for and that we get to have, you know, the best conversations and provide the best solutions first. We see people who are looking at, you know, typically these are retirees, right? But they are looking at taking less risks and want more consistency in their portfolio. That’s my investment philosophy. So I align very well with people who are trying to build a long-term outlook on their portfolio with fixed returns, that are something that is a lot more stable than the volatility in other markets.
Nic DeAngelo [00:33:27]:
That’s one of the second that we see are sophisticated people that are active in the business world that are not, that are not moving into retirement or in retirement, and that just are taking enough effort, enough interest,t and maybe even risks in their business to continue to grow and add know great value to the US and US Economy. Those people want consistent returns on the back end. They want to know that the money that they make day in and Day out is placed in something that’s consistent and long-term focused. So between those two groups, that’s the vast majority of our investors. So I get to learn from our investors every single day what they’re doing, what industries they’re in, what their outlook is. And those two groups we really, really serve very well at Saint.
Jay Conner [00:34:10]:
Oh, that’s great. How can they contact you?
Nic DeAngelo [00:34:13]:
Sure. The best place. So we dig into a lot of economic data, Jay. This is a passion of mine on a personal level. And then we also want to provide this for investors so that they understand what’s going on in the world behind the headlines, behind the news. And we just released a book. Our book is called Economics Over Politics. The goal of the book is to drill down specifically into the biggest trends that are being missed in the news today, so that investors and Americans understand the drivers of the economy that are not being talked about.
Nic DeAngelo [00:34:44]:
So they can find our book, “Economics Over Politics at www.SaintInvestment.com/Book. I highly recommend they check it out. We spent a year drilling down into these economic trends, compiling all the data, and putting it together. So stinvestment.com book, they can find it, and they can find a link there. And I really hope they check it out.
Jay Conner [00:35:04]:
Awesome. Take advantage, folks, of what Nic is offering you there. www.SaintInvestment.com/Book, as in a Christian, www.SaintInvestment.com/Book is that plural or singular? Do we have that right? Nic? Saint investment.
Nic DeAngelo [00:35:21]:
Exactly right. Exactly right.
Jay Conner [00:35:23]:
Perfect. www.SaintInvestment.com/Book, thank you so much for joining me here on the show, Jay.
Nic DeAngelo [00:35:31]:
I had a blast. My friend. Always good to connect with you. God bless, and have a good day.
Jay Conner [00:35:35]:
God bless you, too. Now this is raising private money. And if you’re a real estate investor, you’re looking to raise private money. One of the common questions I get is, Jay, how in the world do I start conversations with a potential private lender to fund my real estate deals? Well, guess what? I have a gift for you. It’s my private million-dollar script collection. The very first script is called the Curiosity Opener. It’ll tell you exactly how to start a conversation with a potential private lender. You can download that for free at www.JayConner.com/Scripts.
Jay Conner [00:36:20]:
Again, that’s jconner.com/scripts. And that’ll get you talking money right away. Well, there you have it. If you listen closely, you just didn’t hear a conversation between Nic and me. You got a roadmap, I’m talking about a road map on where the economy is headed, how to think differently about investing, and most importantly, how to position yourself to win while everyone else is still reacting. Right? So here’s the deal. You and I both know someone right now who is confused about the market, worried about inflation, or still stuck believing Wall Street is the only or the best path. Look, do them a favor, take a quick second right now, hit the share button, and send them this episode.
Jay Conner [00:37:11]:
Because of one conversation, this conversation could completely change how they invest, how they raise money, and how they build wealth. And hey, if this episode gave you value, make sure you subscribe to Raising Private Money so you don’t miss what’s coming up next. I’m Jay Conner, the Private Money Authority. I’ll see you right here on the next episode of Raising Private Money.
Narrator [00:37:39]:
Are you feeling inspired by the knowledge you gained in this episode? Then head over to www.JayConner.com/MoneyGuide, that’s www.JayConner.com/MoneyGuide, and download your free guide that shares seven reasons why private money will skyrocket your real estate investing business right now. Again, that’s jConner.com moneyguide to get your free guide. We’ll see you next time on Raising Private Money with Jay Conner.