In the dynamic world of real estate investing, one challenge consistently rises to the top: finding motivated seller leads. On a recent episode of “Raising Private Money,” host Jay Conner, nationally recognized as the Private Money Authority, sat down with Nicholas Nick, founder of Lead Mining Pros, to talk shop on innovative, practical lead generation strategies that can skyrocket your investing business, whether you’re a seasoned pro or just starting.
From Restaurants to Real Estate: The Nicholas Nick Journey
Nicholas Nick’s path to real estate marketing is anything but typical. Before founding Lead Mining Pros, he spent over a decade in the restaurant industry, managing massive teams and enduring grueling workweeks. This experience fostered in him a fearless mindset and a deep understanding of people—two essential skills for real estate success.
His leap from hospitality to real estate came through event coordination at a major real estate coaching company. Here, he discovered all investors’ pain points: wasted money on inefficient marketing, especially direct mail campaigns with little to show for it.
A pivotal moment came when a client, devastated after spending $5,000 on direct mail without a single call in return, reached out for help. Nick realized there had to be a better way, and so he shifted his approach from costly, passive marketing to proactive cold calling. This hands-on shift not only saved money but also began bringing in results.
The Birth of Lead Mining Pros
Starting, Nicholas personally cold-called hundreds of potential leads every day. Word spread quickly among his peers, who soon began hiring him to generate leads for their businesses. This grassroots, performance-driven approach laid the foundation for Lead Mining Pros, which now generates over $38,000 a week in sales, helping real estate investors build a robust lead pipeline.
What makes Lead Mining Pros different?
According to Nicholas, it’s the combination of tailored lists, high-accuracy skip tracing, and a choice between American or foreign cold callers—each ideal for different markets or strategies. “Niche lists or land? Choose an American caller for the best rapport. Saturated markets or high volumes? Foreign callers, at a third of the cost, get the job done,” Nick advises.
Additionally, Lead Mining Pros offers comprehensive, done-for-you texting campaigns and, perhaps most importantly, top-tier customer service. New real estate investors don’t just get leads—they get direct access to Nicholas himself for coaching, feedback, and campaign optimization. Free online courses and weekly check-ins ensure that clients get the most from every campaign, and, crucially, learn how to convert warm leads into hot deals.
What Works Best: Calls, Texts, or Direct Mail?
Jay Conner and Nicholas Nick share a vital takeaway: the most effective lead generation strategy depends on your budget, goals, and willingness to roll up your sleeves. If funds allow, running direct mail, calling, and texting campaigns simultaneously can help you gather invaluable data and maximize response rates. But if you need to prioritize, start with cold calling and texting. These channels not only tend to generate more leads for less money, but they also allow for rapid testing and adjustment.
That said, calling and texting do require real hustle. “You can’t be an armchair quarterback with a calling campaign,” Nicholas stresses. “If you process and systematize your approach, you can outperform direct mail. But you have to be ready to work those leads.”
Converting More Leads: The Secret Sauce
A persistent issue for investors is making contact with a lead after the initial inquiry. Nicholas’s solution: persistence and a structured follow-up sequence. He recommends up to 18 touches (calls, texts, and voicemails) per lead, ensuring no opportunity slips through the cracks. His pro tip? Use the “takeaway” technique in your final message. By letting leads know this is your last attempt, you often spark a response from even the most elusive prospects.
Conclusion
In a market where deals are harder to find and competition is fierce, innovative lead generation and relentless follow-up are non-negotiable. As Jay Conner and Nicholas Nick make clear, success hinges on using the right strategies—and being willing to work the system. With resources like Lead Mining Pros and expert guidance, there’s gold to be dug—even in the toughest markets.
Ready to multiply your motivated seller leads? Learn more at www.LeadMiningPros.com and tune in to the “Raising Private Money” podcast for more actionable insights!
10 Discussion Questions from this Episode:
- How has the landscape of finding motivated sellers changed since COVID-19, according to Jay Conner, and why are off-market deals now more important?
- Nicholas Nick talks about his transition from the restaurant industry to running a lead generation company. What skills did he say transferred over, and how can those be applied to real estate investing?
- What prompted Nicholas Nick to start Lead Mining Pros, and how did an interaction with a distressed client influence his business model?
- What is the “10,000 hours method” that Nicholas Nick references, and why does he believe being hands-on with every client makes a difference in lead generation success?
- Nicholas highlights that his company offers both American and foreign cold callers. What are the pros and cons of each approach for real estate investors, and in what situations does he recommend using each?
- Discuss the importance of customer service in lead generation as explained by Nicholas Nick. How does his personal involvement and free coaching help differentiate his business?
- What are the five core services provided by Lead Mining Pros, and why does Nicholas put a strong emphasis on having ‘no contracts, no commitments’?
- Jay and Nicholas discuss various marketing channels for lead generation. According to Nicholas, under what circumstances should investors use cold calling, texting, or direct mail, and how should the budget affect these decisions?
- What strategies did Nicholas suggest for following up with unresponsive leads, and why is persistence (up to 18 “touches”) crucial in converting those leads?
- In what ways does Nicholas Nick recommend analyzing and troubleshooting a marketing campaign that isn’t performing as expected, and how can statistics help real estate investors improve their lead generation efforts?
Fun facts that were revealed in the episode:
- A Name with a Story: Nicholas Nick, today’s lead generation expert, actually got his unique name because his grandfather, a famous Greek priest, petitioned hard for Nicholas to be named after him at the hospital, in line with Greek tradition. The twist? Nicholas was expected to be a girl!
- Restaurant Roots to Real Estate Results: Before founding Lead Mining Pros, Nicholas spent over a decade managing busy restaurants (like one of the top-grossing IHOPs in the country) and credits that experience with making him “fearless” and giving him extraordinary people skills, which he now uses to help investors find motivated seller leads.
- From Cold Calls to Viral Demand: Nicholas launched his lead generation business almost by accident, charging his first clients just $200 a week to cold call for them. After a single Facebook post offering “all-American cold calling,” he received 350 comments with email requests, instantly launching a successful company that now averages over $38,000 in sales every week!
Timestamps:
00:00 Off-Market Real Estate Leads Solution
04:43 Lead Mining Pros: Marketing Mastermind Success
09:18 Stage Experience to Executive Promotion
10:20 Leadership Hierarchy Challenges
13:03 Cold Calling Revolution
18:04 Choosing Callers for Real Estate
21:00 Comprehensive Client Support Service
23:12 Optimizing Lead Generation Strategies
26:26 Effective Cold Calling for Profit
31:07 Personalized Follow-Up with Video
32:35 Accent Impact on Cold Calling Success
34:07 Connect with Nicholas Nick:
https://www.LeadMiningPros.com
Or Call: 727-877-8772
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Jay Conner is a proven real estate investment leader. Without using his own money or credit, Jay maximizes creative methods to buy and sell properties with profits averaging $67,000 per deal.
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Off-Market Deals Made Easy: A Deep Dive into Lead Mining with Nicholas Nick
Jay Conner [00:00:01]:
Welcome to another amazing episode of Raising Private Money. I’m Jay Conner, your host, also known as the Private Money Authority. This is the podcast where we talk about how to raise private money without ever having to ask for money. Now, today we’re going to take a little detour. We talk all the time. My lands, we are in our eighth year of this show. Raising private money. We talk all the time about raising private money for all types of real estate deals.
Jay Conner [00:00:31]:
Today, we’re going to take a little detour because, after all, once you have all the money lined up for your real estate deals, the question is, where are you going to get your deals? Where are you going to find those motivated sellers? Well, I can tell you, ever since COVID in 2020, I haven’t even bought a single family house, invested in a single family house. Ever since COVID, there have been no deals. There haven’t been any deals in the multiple listing service for many years. All the deals that I buy are off-market. And you know, there are many, many, many ways to find these motivated sellers. But my special guest today has got a done-for-you lead-generating business for you, a real estate investor. Whether you’re a seasoned real estate investor or you’re brand new and you haven’t even started your business yet, this done-for-you lead gen service will help you scale your sales and triple your motivated seller lead pipeline. Well, my guest is very hands-on.
Jay Conner [00:01:36]:
He’s been doing this for eight years now, serving clients like you. He’s got this method called the 10,000 hours method, which means he is in the trenches with you and he talks personally with every one of his clients. Listen, if you want to find the motivated sellers, even in a market where it’s hard to find motivated sellers, you don’t want to miss out on one second of this episode because in just a moment, you’re going to meet my guest, Nicholas Nick, right after this.
Narrator [00:02:09]:
If you’re a real estate investor and are wondering how to raise and leverage private money to make more profit on every deal, then you’re in the right place for raising private money. We’ll speak with new and seasoned investors to dissect their deals and extract the best tips and strategies to help you get the money. Because the money comes first. Now here’s your host, Jay Connor.
Jay Conner [00:02:37]:
Nicholas, welcome to the show, my friend.
Nicholas Nick [00:02:40]:
Yeah, thank you so much. Jay. How are you doing today?
Jay Conner [00:02:43]:
I am fantastic. Can you not tell I am fantastic today? I’ve had two mugs of ginger tea. Don’t mess with me, I’m so excited to have you. Nicholas, for goodness’ sake. I mean, here’s my question.
Nicholas Nick [00:02:57]:
Yeah.
Jay Conner [00:02:58]:
Who in the world would name their son Nicholas with the last name of Nick? That’s what I want to know.
Nicholas Nick [00:03:05]:
Do you know how many people think that’s a fake name? And I don’t even blame them, right? They’re like, there’s no way that that’s your real name. You know, I’ll tell you the story real quick, even though it’s not too flattering. I was supposed to be a girl, okay? That’s how. That’s how this story starts. So. So.
Jay Conner [00:03:23]:
So for those of you that. For those of you who cannot see the video, let me assure you, Nicholas Nick is not a girl. Because he’s got a very thick beard. Or if he is a girl, she’s taking a lot of hormones.
Nicholas Nick [00:03:38]:
I’m taking great care of myself. But. But I was supposed to be born a girl. And my grandfather’s Greek, and he was a priest. He’s a famous priest. And. And his name was Nicholas Nick, but it was. It was only Nicholas Nick because of Ellis Island, right? He came back through Ellis Island, they changed his last name to Nick.
Nicholas Nick [00:03:57]:
His first name was already Nicholas. And then it made him famous. I don’t even know there was such a thing as a famous priest, but if there is one, my grandfather’s photo would be there. Reverend Nicholas Nick. And then, I come out, okay? And I’m a boy. And he was so excited, he begged my parents at the wrong time, Please name him after me. Please name him. They’re like, Will you leave the room? We’re busy here, okay? And my parents did.
Nicholas Nick [00:04:28]:
And it is a Greek tradition to be named after your grandfather. So it didn’t take too much, but it was just a surprise to everyone that I was a boy. And then, you know, the rest was history. And then who’d have thought that I’d have a career in marketing, right? Who saw that one coming?
Jay Conner [00:04:43]:
I know. Especially, I mean, you and I are in a mastermind together, and we share that family. And you’ve got a long history in the restaurant business. And then here you end up in marketing with your done-for-you service, which I want to go ahead and let everybody know the name of your company and the. Your services. You’re the founder of lead mining. I think your website is www.LeadMiningPros.com. So we want to hear all about that because, I mean, never before has it been more challenging, more difficult to find those motivated sellers? I mean, I use seven different pay-per-lead Google services to get.
Jay Conner [00:05:33]:
To get the leads coming in, so we’re all excited to hear about this. So, how did you get into this? And how are you qualified to talk about finding lead gen or providing lead gen for real estate investors, for goodness’ sake?
Nicholas Nick [00:05:49]:
Yeah, I’m going to work on the short version of this story. But being short, I don’t know if it’s my Greek heritage. It’s not always my strong suit. But, you know, we do go back, right? My restaurant career. I didn’t realize it at the time. I spent 13 years in the running restaurants, and it doesn’t mean owning them. I was just a manager. I never made more than $65,000 per year to work 70 hours a week.
Nicholas Nick [00:06:13]:
It was pretty crazy back then.
Jay Conner [00:06:15]:
Hey, listen, not to interrupt your story. I can relate, man. Right out of college, I went to work for a chain restaurant. It was really good, called Daryl’s Restaurants. I did it for two years. Ninety days into it, Nicholas, I knew I hated it, but pride wouldn’t let me quit. But, yeah, a hundred hours a week. And I was too scared to divide my weekly paycheck by 100 hours to see what it was per hour.
Jay Conner [00:06:42]:
And people would say to me, they’d say, Jay, you can’t be on the job a hundred hours a week. I said, Oh, yeah, you can. I didn’t say I was efficient. I didn’t say I was worth anything, but I was there in that building 100 hours a week. Back to you, Nicholas.
Nicholas Nick [00:07:00]:
No, I And. And 100%, you know, I mean, I. I’m scared of nothing now because of how hard I used to work. You know, a story that I won’t go in depth on, but it was my first day at IHOP, my very first day. One of the many restaurants I worked at, my very first day, and someone pooped on the floor. And I was like, of course they pooped on the floor, right? I mean, welcome. That’s my.
Nicholas Nick [00:07:21]:
This is my orientation. But when you’re faced with obstacles like that, lots of hours, lots of stress, lots of employees, you know, you find yourself to be pretty fearless, you know, and that’s. And so that’s where the story started. So my restaurant career taught me how to be fearless. One, I’m not scared of anything. And then the next part that it taught me is it taught me how to work with people, right? So the emotional intelligence and the employment side, right? So, emotional intelligence, as far as customer service goes, and then managing employees. My average restaurant.
Nicholas Nick [00:07:54]:
I ran one of the busiest restaurants in the country for IHOP. They did over $4 million a year. And by the way, when everything’s like $3, that’s a lot of sales that we’re doing at that IHOP. And my average shift had almost 50 active employees on it at one time. So I didn’t realize at the time because I’m just going to work every day, but I was learning how to run an army, you know, so those two things were my foundation, if you will. After I left the restaurant industry, I. I remember I applied for all these jobs. Whatever wasn’t a restaurant, I applied for.
Jay Conner [00:08:32]:
You were sick and tired of the restaurant business.
Nicholas Nick [00:08:35]:
Yeah. Well, I knew I would be rehired in minutes, right? And when we decide to leave an industry, we have to leave. So I no longer entertain interviews or anything like that. I said, I’m out of here. And I landed at one of the biggest coaching companies about nine years ago. And. And I got so lucky. They hired me as their event coordinator because I figured, you know, restaurants are an event that’s happening for 15 hours a day, so I can throw an event, right? Like, I could do that.
Nicholas Nick [00:09:06]:
And they. They hired me. They took a chance on me, and I was right. I crushed it. I threw all their events. I traveled the country. I was setting up all the electronics. I was prepping the speakers.
Nicholas Nick [00:09:18]:
I was speaking on stage when the owner was late, which he was very often. I remember one day, he didn’t show up. Like, where’s he at? Where’s he at? Where’s he at? And I was like, I don’t know. Like, are you gonna call him? Like, he knows when his event starts. What am I gonna call him and tell him? I said, Look, I’m gonna get on stage. This is what happens, right? It was a great experience. So I started there, throwing the events. Within 10 months, I was given three promotions, and I became an executive over the entire mentorship division of this real estate education company.
Nicholas Nick [00:09:51]:
And I was. I had no real estate experience. None other than throwing these events. But they promoted me because of my leadership and my management, and my customer service. So I was good with the people. I was good at being organized. And I think you can agree, Jay, I’ve learned that leadership is universal. It doesn’t matter where you put me right now.
Nicholas Nick [00:10:13]:
With great leadership, we’re going to come up with a solution.
Jay Conner [00:10:16]:
Well, John Maxwell would agree with you 100%.
Nicholas Nick [00:10:20]:
And, you know, I was a student of his. You know, he’s the one I used to. I don’t know who can follow this, but he has a book called Levels of Leadership. And I remember feuding with a couple of my bosses. And in Levels of Leadership, they explained to you that if you’re a higher-level leader, you cannot work for a lower-level leader because you see all their stuff, you know what they’re doing wrong. And these bosses, I didn’t get along with. There wasn’t anything wrong with either one of these. I was just a little higher up on the rung of leadership.
Nicholas Nick [00:10:50]:
So it was causing this rift because I was almost helicopter parenting my boss, and I was like, we. We shouldn’t be doing that. However, this is a great way to get promoted once they move out of your way. So now I’m. I’m now leading this education company, and if you think about it, there’s no better place for me. People are bringing their complaints to me left and Right, which is right where I want to be. Oh, my direct mail cost is too high. Oh, this lead quit on me.
Nicholas Nick [00:11:20]:
Oh, this contract was canceled. I’m having a hard time getting my lead systems created. And the. What sparked the creation of this company was a phone call I got from crying customers of mine. And she was crying, and she just spent $30,000 on our program for education. And why she was crying was that she just sent out $5,000 in direct mail. And she says, Nick, my phone didn’t even ring once. She’s like, I’m.
Nicholas Nick [00:11:48]:
I’m financially devastated. And to be honest, she could have put the wrong number on her postcards. That’s a newbie mistake. That happens all the time. I hate to say that, but I mean, there could be a series of reasons for what happens here. But it was still hard on her, right? And she was devastated by this. And I remember thinking, there’s got to be a better way. At the time, direct mail was the only thing that was taught, okay? And I was like, there’s got to be a better way.
Nicholas Nick [00:12:13]:
What. What’s free? What’s free? And again, keep in mind, I’m not a real estate investor. I’m a former restaurant manager, right? What’s free? And I. I look down at my phone, and I go, well, we’re already paying AT&T. We’re already paying Verizon. Why don’t we just call these people? So I immediately pivoted the program to cold calling everybody. Okay? I was like, if you got the money, mail. If you don’t have the money, you call.
Nicholas Nick [00:12:39]:
Okay. It was the whole strategy. It worked out well. People closed lots of deals. We changed. We had these events that we threw that we used to put thousands of dollars in direct mail into to fuel it with leads. We no longer did that, so I saved the companies thousands of dollars from even generating their leads for their events. And we had the students cold calling themselves live in the event.
Nicholas Nick [00:13:03]:
We changed the entire makeup. And that’s what. That’s what I didn’t know was the foundation of my company today. At the time, I was just solving a corporate issue, right? This. This avenue we offer is too expensive for the average person to maintain, right? So we’ve got to create something else. So I created the cold calling. And then when that job came to an end, after I saw these students closing deals and making money, I went home from work, and I was like, I’m a cold call every day. Okay, I’m gonna.
Nicholas Nick [00:13:33]:
And I did. I called 300 to 600 people every day. And that was my personal goal. So one thing, a little hack I’ll give everybody is I don’t. I don’t set one goal for myself. I set two goals for myself. My first goal is my minimum. Okay? 300 dials was my minimum.
Nicholas Nick [00:13:50]:
I’m not eating dinner that night until I dial my 300 dials. I didn’t deserve dinner.
Jay Conner [00:13:56]:
I hope you had an automated dialer and you weren’t punching in 300 phone numbers.
Nicholas Nick [00:14:02]:
I was using Mojo at the time. You’re exactly.
Jay Conner [00:14:04]:
There you go.
Nicholas Nick [00:14:06]:
But. But I knew if I hit 600, that I was a monster, right? I could brag to my friends, even though nobody would understand the brag, right? But. So that was my personal goal. So 300 to 600 at the end of three months. I didn’t have any deals of my own, but I had people who’d asked me if I could call for them. Hey, I’m really busy. Can I pay you to call for me? Yeah, yeah. 200 bucks a week.
Nicholas Nick [00:14:33]:
That’s what I charge people. 200 bucks a week. I’ll make 500 dials for you, and I’ll send you all the leads. And before I knew it, I had five of those clients of mine, and I was like, hey, you know, I’m. I’m only working, like, 10 hours a week. I’m making about a thousand bucks a week. You know, coming off the restaurant story, you know, 60 grand a year for 70,000 a year. I was like, wait a second.
Nicholas Nick [00:14:56]:
I’ve never made this much and worked this little in my life. Right. And that’s when I saw the writing on the wall. Then I’m almost done. Then I made a post in a Facebook group that was very popular back in the day, and it said I’d never done this before. But our niche is all American. We have American cold callers. That’s one specialty about us.
Nicholas Nick [00:15:21]:
Everyone out there is using foreigners, and we have foreigners as an option. But our niche is American. That’s one of the things that sets us apart. So I say, hey, I’m offering all-American cold calling. And that post is viral. I had 350 comments of emails. That’s back in the day, nine years ago. People didn’t say interested back in the day.
Nicholas Nick [00:15:40]:
They just commented on their email address. That’s how old this story is. And that night, I emailed 300 people. The next day I woke up and I closed 20 people. And ever since that day, my business has never done less than $10,000 a week in sales. So that was the inception, and that was eight years ago. And then right now we’re averaging about $38,000 a week in sales since.
Jay Conner [00:16:06]:
That’s fantastic. Nicholas. What a story. For goodness’ sake. Now let’s dive in. Tell us what Lead Mining Pro does. What’s, what’s the full gamut of services, and explain it to the point of you have a newbie real estate investor listening that’s never done a deal before, doesn’t know anything about marketing. And also make it interesting enough for those who have spent a bunch of money.
Nicholas Nick [00:16:38]:
Yes.
Jay Conner [00:16:39]:
On lead generation that has not worked.
Nicholas Nick [00:16:42]:
Yes, absolutely. So there are a couple of great avenues about what I offer. So one thing is I have a done-for-you strategy, and there are no contracts, no commitments. And the reason why those are very important is that you’re never stuck with us. Okay. I think that’s very important. I always joke and say I signed a DirecTV contract 10 years ago that I’m still unhappy about. Right.
Nicholas Nick [00:17:04]:
So I’m not going to make any customer sign a contract with me. So what we do is I offer five things to all of my clients. All right? The first thing I offer is that I can pull a list in any market in America. You give me the list type you want, the zip codes, the property value, and the equity amounts. I can pull that list. After I pull that list, a list full of records. I then skip-trace that. Now, whoever doesn’t know skip tracing is the art of finding an accurate phone number would be the simple way to put it.
Nicholas Nick [00:17:35]:
Now, our phone numbers are accurate 80% of the time. So 8 out of 10 people who pick up the phone do tell us they own the property that we’re calling about. So very accurate. And so after we skip trace it, I offer my co-callers. Now, my cold callers come in two forms. Like I mentioned earlier. You can pick an American caller or you can pick a foreign caller. Now, naturally, the foreign callers are much cheaper, almost three times cheaper, to be exact.
Nicholas Nick [00:18:04]:
Okay? Now, a lot of people say, well, when should I use which caller? So I’ll tell you right now, you want to use the American on more niche lists. And if you’re doing land, okay, land investing is blowing up recently, but if you have a niche list, like there’s not that many people on it, a couple thousand max, right? Then go with the American. Or if you’re doing land, go with the American. Now, when should you use a foreign caller? You want to use a foreign caller in your saturated markets? Or if you’re doing houses where volume matters, since they’re three times cheaper, what that means is that for the same investment, you can go almost three times further. So, think about if you found a direct mail piece that was one-third the price. Well, you would send that one out to the tougher markets, right? And it’s because at those levels, at the tough market level, you need that volume to succeed anyway. And in addition to that, if someone’s getting five phone calls a day, the one phone call that is an American doesn’t stand out that much because they’re just being pounded too hard on the phone anyway, right? They don’t even care if you’re an American. But if you’re, if you’re on a niche list or if you’re in more of a suburban market and the American calls it, you can actually.
Nicholas Nick [00:19:19]:
Oh, wow, that was a pleasant conversation. You can tell. So that’s how I recommend those. So after the calls, we offer text messaging too. So we also offer done-for-you texting, where we will text blast everybody on the list, and we’ll even reply for you for free, and then we’ll send you the entire transcript of the conversation. Now that’s our four, the four core offers. Pull the list, skip, trace it, cold call it, and text message it. But the fifth thing I offer is really what makes us special.
Nicholas Nick [00:19:50]:
And I’ll just cover that real quick. So I call the fifth thing a shitload of customer service, okay? And that’s what makes us important. You talked about the 10,000-hour method earlier. And this is the way I get them. So my cell phone number is on the website. Every one of my customers has direct access to me. If you hire me and you’re a customer of mine, I automatically consider you a free coaching client. You get a lead, you don’t know what to say, you don’t know what to do.
Nicholas Nick [00:20:15]:
You can call me, my cell phone. I want to help you close that lead. I do. Because then we’re both successful, right? For no contracts, no commitments. So if you don’t succeed, I don’t succeed. So, one, you get a free coach with it. Two, I also give free courses online. And these aren’t beginner.
Nicholas Nick [00:20:32]:
When I say courses, people like, I’ve seen courses. I know these courses are designed to tell you how to close the leads that I send you, that I’ve been working for eight years straight. Highly recommend anyone watch these courses who’s about to be working a cold calling or a text message lead. Okay? And I teach people how to take these warm leads and turn them into hot leads. And those are free courses. You could get them right now from my website. It’s at the top. If you go to the website.
Nicholas Nick [00:21:00]:
I also offer weekly one-on-one calls to all active clients to review their campaigns. So one of the big things about us, I remind everyone, is I’m not just gonna send you leads and say, good luck, kid. I’m gonna send you leads, and I’m gonna send you an email to book a call with me and ask you how it’s going. I’m gonna review your KPIs with you. And the way these calls work is if you have a bunch of leads, I’m gonna help you convert them. And if you don’t have a bunch of leads, I’m gonna help you troubleshoot your campaign so we can get you more leads. All those last things I just mentioned, the phone number, the courses, and the one-on-one calls, all completely free, all included with my service. And those are our real big differentiators.
Jay Conner [00:21:47]:
Well, Nicholas, that is an amazing package of services that you include. I love the courses, the free courses that you have there. I love the coaching. You’re very, very different in offering direct access to yourself to offer that coaching service. Exactly. So I’ve got a. I’ve got a question for you. What’s your opinion? Let’s say somebody’s got a list.
Jay Conner [00:22:14]:
All right? Real estate investors got a list. Let’s say it’s a great list. It’s A hot list. What’s your opinion of utilizing your outbound calling service? You know, you. You know, the skip tracing and all that. Yeah, the texting, combining that with a simultaneous direct mail campaign to the same list. I know you’ve got an opinion on that?
Nicholas Nick [00:22:41]:
Yeah. You know, so first of all, it’s about budget. Okay. If it’s in your budget to do both simultaneously and you love marketing data, I would go ahead and do it. So first thing we’re looking at is the budget. If the budget’s there to do it all, do it all. But now what we’re looking for is our statistics. How well did the texting do? How good was the calling? How good did the direct mail do? One way I look at things, like in my one-on-one consulting calls, is I want you to get the most leads for the least cost.
Nicholas Nick [00:23:12]:
So, what we would do with that data to start is we would see what gave us the biggest bang for our buck, which produced the hottest leads for the least cost that we could scale. The answer might be all three. The answer might just be one. So that’s my first answer. My second answer to the question is, what if you only had enough money to do one or the other? Okay, if that’s the case, I would start with calls and text messages. The reason is that the results that we get from the calls and texting are a little cheaper. So the results we get from that will tell us whether we should direct mail or not. If we don’t get anything on calls and text, the direct mail is going to be much worse.
Nicholas Nick [00:23:56]:
Right, because calling and texting almost always perform better than direct mail on quantity of leads, not always quality. Okay, so I’ll just share that as well. So there is a little bit difference there. But I would call and text first, and then if those results are good, then mail. If they aren’t good, I would pivot early and then potentially make a change. The downside of direct mail is that there are only one, two downsides. One is that the cost per lead is pretty expensive, right? So I only recommend direct mail if you’ve closed a couple of deals because you don’t want to be learning on a 300 to $500 lead. Right.
Nicholas Nick [00:24:37]:
But the downsides to calling and texting are that you have to work the lead, right? I mean, you have to get in there, build rapport, create a relationship. And a lot of people, even though they want to make $50,000 a deal, they’re not all willing to roll their sleeves up. So each strategy has its pros and cons.
Jay Conner [00:24:56]:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. On average, would you say that it costs more to make outbound calls and texts, or does it cost more to direct mail? And let me quantify what I mean by cost more. You know, cost per lead is not the KPI that drives things. It’s the cost per conversion.
Nicholas Nick [00:25:18]:
Right.
Jay Conner [00:25:19]:
How much did I invest to get a deal? I mean, I can be getting leads for $30 a lead, but if none of them convert.
Nicholas Nick [00:25:29]:
Right.
Jay Conner [00:25:29]:
Then it’s wasted money. Does that question make sense?
Nicholas Nick [00:25:33]:
It does make sense. And again, I have this. I’ll give another two-part answer. Okay. If you are. So they both have their pros and cons. Right. And so if you have the direct mail going out and you have the skills, there is a great opportunity that direct mail can do well.
Nicholas Nick [00:25:53]:
But the downside of direct mail is that as soon as it doesn’t work, it feels expensive. Right. That’s the downside of direct mail. Now, for cold calling and text messaging, you know, you get so many at bat. So I would say choose calling and texting, but you have to have the mindset of, I’m going to go toe to toe with all these leads. All right? So, direct mail, let’s say you could be an armchair quarterback, would be a great way to put that right. A little bit easier. The leads call you with direct mail.
Nicholas Nick [00:26:26]:
They’re either, yes, I want to sell, or they say, go F yourself. Right. It’s either one of those two replies on a direct mail. But cold calling is for everybody who’s maybe plus. That’s what I call cold calling and texting leads, maybe plus leads. So what I tell people, and this is why I give those courses away, if you work those, maybe plus leads, and you create a system around it, you will be closing more deals than direct mail. But if you are not willing to do the work and roll your sleeves up, do not enter the realm of calling and texting. However, in my opinion, if you think of your profits that you could make, I think it’s advantageous to follow my course, create the system, and work the leads properly.
Nicholas Nick [00:27:14]:
But I had a client. I’ll just share. We got him. This is a juicer. We got him 30 leads for 600 bucks. It was a land campaign, and he booked a call with me. He was a coach at one of the coaching companies I was consulting for. And he said, he said, Nick, you know, I haven’t called the lead in 10 years.
Nicholas Nick [00:27:33]:
He’s only been doing direct Mail. He goes, Hey, I’m not gonna call these guys. You know, and I love that. That was the most honest answer I’ve ever gotten from a client before. So that is not a person I would recommend calling and texting. He knows direct mail made him lazy to a degree. Right. And I think that’s fine.
Nicholas Nick [00:27:53]:
But I think we’re all kind of feeling the lull that’s happening in direct mail a little bit right now. So, direct mail made us lazy for about four or five years there. But like you mentioned at the beginning, leads are becoming harder to come by the longer we go. So as they become harder to come by, we have to incorporate more of those guerrilla tactics.
Jay Conner [00:28:12]:
Yeah. So, last question for you on this show, Nicholas, and that is, you know, I’ve been investing in single-family houses now, and I’ve been looking for motivated sellers full time since 2003.
Nicholas Nick [00:28:26]:
Wow.
Jay Conner [00:28:27]:
And one challenge that we’ve had for years. And so I want you to share the secret sauce to fix this problem, to fix this challenge. And that is, you have a lead come in. And then here comes the challenge of getting that lead back on the phone. Maybe they talk to your acquisitionist, maybe they talk to the 24-hour recording service. Maybe they left a message on a 24-hour message hotline. But they, the lead, came in, and they made the phone call. Of course, in your all’s case, they’re answering the phone or they are responding to a text.
Jay Conner [00:29:09]:
What is the secret sauce for the real estate investor or the acquisitionist to get that lead back on the phone and continue the conversation so you’re not chasing them and calling them and chasing them and calling them. Etc.
Nicholas Nick [00:29:26]:
Got it. So I’m gonna give another multi-prong answer here. So the first thing is, what if they don’t pick up? What do we do? So I recommend, just remember how I said I do 300 to 600 dials. So I have a minimum commitment on everything and a maximum commitment. So, first, the minimum commitment to getting the lead back on the phone should be 18 touches. Okay. To get them back on the phone. And I recommend this happen in over six different actual touches, and then each touch being three touches.
Nicholas Nick [00:29:58]:
So we call them, they don’t answer, we leave a voicemail, and we text them every time. I recommend doing that six times. Call, voicemail, text, do not ever text the lead first. As soon as that lead knows who you are, if they don’t want to talk to you, they’ll never answer that phone again. Okay, so you want your first interaction to be a call every time. And then when you text them, you want to say something like, Hey, it’s Nicholas. I was reaching out because you spoke to my partner about the property address. Right.
Nicholas Nick [00:30:33]:
If they want to talk to us, they will. Then I recommend doing that six times. I recommend your very last touch. Saying something like, Hey, sorry, clearly you’re not interested. This is the last you’re ever gonna hear from me. Okay, I, that works.
Jay Conner [00:30:52]:
Oh, no, it’s called the takeaway.
Nicholas Nick [00:30:54]:
Right? Yeah. Hey, you know what? I’m, you know, I. You’re not interested. I must have misunderstood. I’m out of here. Please forgive me. And I’ve had people be like, no, no, no, I am interested. I’m sorry, I’ve just been busy.
Nicholas Nick [00:31:07]:
The other thing I recommend, I learned this from Grant Cardone, is that in that last message, you should send them a personalized video text of you, hey, it’s Nicholas. You know, say their full name. Say your full name, let them know it’s not an AI video. Hey, you know, I was just reaching out. I just wanted to send this as a last discharge, my last time contacting you. So kind to follow that same cadence. So that is, if they don’t answer, what should you do? The other thing is, what does it mean when a lot of my leads aren’t answering their phone? Well, that is sometimes the sign of a saturated market. It’s very important to pay attention to the clues that the lead gen strategy is giving us.
Nicholas Nick [00:31:49]:
You know, managing lead gen campaigns myself and having these on one call. I just had someone today with 10 leads on like $500 worth of work in Massachusetts, which is really. Massachusetts is normally very hard to get two leads, let alone. And she said that almost all of them wanted above retail value. And I said, okay, cool, this makes sense again because yes, we got the leads, but what they’re saying is that it’s most likely a saturated market again. So sometimes the data and how the leads are responding communicate facts about us as well. So that’s two things. The third thing is that we have to look at their previous touch.
Nicholas Nick [00:32:35]:
Why aren’t they answering the phone again? And maybe whatever system you have or whatever they called into didn’t resonate with them. And I’ll just give you a small example. One thing about my American cold callers that I’ve noticed is that the lead takes the American more seriously. Think about that. So if the foreign person called, yes, A thick accent, hard to understand, and then they get a follow-up call, they are, unbeknownst to them, accidentally disrespecting you as a wholesaler because their first touch they didn’t enjoy. So they might go, oh, yeah, I remember speaking of that Filipino person, I barely understood what they said. I’m not calling that guy back. But when it’s an American and they had an amazing first call experience, we’ve noticed that our clients who have American callers get more leads on the phone more often.
Nicholas Nick [00:33:34]:
So I will say that you should look at your process that led up to where you’re following up and see where you could have improved their experience to give them the amount of respect for you to answer your call. I don’t know if that makes sense.
Jay Conner [00:33:49]:
Nicholas, you have given amazing value here on the Raising Private Money podcast and show. I’m so thankful that you took the time to come on one more time to your website, and the best way for people to connect with you and to learn about how to do business with you.
Nicholas Nick [00:34:07]:
Absolutely. Yeah. My website is leadminingpros.com, that is an S at the end. And also, if you want to give me a shot, I’ll give you guys my cell phone number right now. My cell is 727-877-8772. I like to encourage people, whether you’re going to become a customer or not, you don’t have to just call me. If you’re going to be a customer, you could call me and just ask questions about what you saw on this podcast, what I think about your market, just even as a friend. So I like meeting everyone, that’s the restaurant manager in me.
Nicholas Nick [00:34:39]:
So, anyone can feel free to reach out to me directly and just pick my brain if they want to.
Jay Conner [00:34:44]:
That’s wonderful. Nicholas. Thank you so much for joining me. God bless you.
Nicholas Nick [00:34:48]:
You too. Thank you, Jay.
Jay Conner [00:34:49]:
There you have it. Another amazing episode of Raising Private Money with Jay Connor. And to ensure that I can have more amazing guests here on the show. Just like Nicholas Nick, well, let me tell you, you are one conversation away from making a huge impact. All I’m going to ask you to do right now is as a thank you for Nicholas Nick being here. Share this episode Share this link with just one person Share this link with just one person that you believe could have an impact on them in their lives. I look forward to seeing you right here on the next episode of Raising Private Money with Jay Connor.
Narrator [00:35:35]:
Are you feeling inspired by the knowledge you gained in this episode? Then head over to www.JayConner.com/MoneyGuide and download your free guide that shares seven reasons why private money will skyrocket your real estate investing business. Right now. Again, that’s www.JayConner.com/MoneyGuide to get your free guide. We’ll see you next time on Raising Private Money with Jay Conner.